Hive and Its 30 Days Deferral of New Stake Influence on Governance Voting

in #hive-133232 months ago

Any HIVE powered up today has no influence on governance voting (witnesses or DHF proposals) until a window of 30 days would have passed since the powerup. Did you know that?

If you are an old timer on Hive, you probably did. But if you would have created a new account, powered up some Hive, and voted on, let's say a DHF proposal with it, and didn't see your account in the voters list with the corresponding HP amount, would you have thought about this explanation? Maybe, maybe not.

I thought about writing this post after seeing that @sps.dao didn't seem to vote on the Splinterlands DHF proposal, despite buying and powering up 1m HIVE. After a discussion with @revisesociology and some tracking, I realized what was going on. They proxied their governance vote to @steemmonsters account, which is fine. But the proxied amount that account voted with was way below 1m HP which is the HP of the SPS DAO alone. That's when I realized what was going on, that their vote was deferred for 30 days since the power up(s). At further investigation, look at this:

Note the two Delayed Votes and the value of those votes in VESTS, corresponding to the two times they probably attempted governance voting, on the Aug 21 and Aug 31. After 30 days from each of them, their governance vote action will become effective.

Now, for anyone who may be outraged by this and that you can't fully use your HIVE power from the moment you stake it, I guess it is story time.

Once upon a time, on our legacy chain (and in the first month or so since Hive forked), one could use full powers of their HIVE stake, from the moment it was staked.

Then something happened: the takeover of the legacy chain, with the help of a few major exchanges, that powered up their customers funds and sided with the attacker, perhaps initially being fouled by him. Still wrong of them to do that.

Looks like a 13-week power down process for their customer funds wasn't a powerful-enough deterrent to not do it (they were promised a HF to reduce the power down process to 4 weeks, which was delivered on the legacy chain, so they didn't have their funds stuck for 13 weeks, after all).

Anyway, following these events, on the fork that Hive is, the 30-days deferral window for governance voting was introduced, to prevent any attacker to stake a large amount of HP and immediately mess with the governance of the chain.

While that measure affects every new stake on Hive, it is a fail-safe that experience taught us is necessary.

This situation with the SPS DAO new HIVE stake and voting on the Splinterlands DHF proposal may be quite a rare situation where the 30 days deferral of the new Hive stake influence on governance voting may have an adverse effect for a normal use of the stake, given the time-sensitiveness of the vote and the sort of ongoing battle for funding which proposals need to have (which is not the best system we could have, but it is what we have now).

But otherwise, for a newcomer in an ecosystem, regardless of the amount of their initial investment, 30 days could be considered as a minimum initiation period, before they actually understand what they vote for and why, when it comes to governance. And let's be fair, 30 days is quite a short window. Most newcomers won't know much about Hive governance after many months if not years from their arrival on Hive.

Note that no one is being stopped from voting on governance, even the first minute after power up. The effects of the vote is delayed until 30 days since the powerup have passed, though.

If you have any questions, let me know in the comments below.

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That's good to know. Great detective work!

Thanks. Yes, I thought it's a good information to put out there, particularly if Splinterlands investors who had little to no contact to Hive governance become interested.

Really?
So if I power up some Hive today, I can’t fully use it
Is that what you mean?

You can use it for anything else (curation, "interest", delegation, RCs), except Hive governance (votes on witnesses or DHF proposals with the powered up HIVE). For the latter to have effect, you need to wait 30 days from the powerup.

This 30 day delay for governance voting is one of the major reasons that make HIVE one of the most secure blockchains in the world. Many PoS and DPoS blockchains have unstaking times of merely 3 days.

Many PoS and DPoS blockchains have unstaking times of merely 3 days.

Yes, that's pretty wild security-wise. It's true, that also attracts more liquidity since the majority of the crypto investors are in fact gamblers anyway.

Thank you for these informations
I’m glad to know more

Thanks, I was not conscious enough about this deferred time, now is clearer

You're welcome! Since we've been on Hive for a long time, we're rarely in the situation of being affected by this, unless we move stake from one account to another or power up to a new account.

Wow this is interesting - didn't know that. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks and you're welcome!


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I recently learned about the 30 day thing from the sps.dao, but I didn't know the reasoning for it, so this was very educational. It is in things like these that really make me appreciate our DAO and Hive as a whole. We learn from our mistakes, and change things for those not to happen again.

At least we learn from (some of) our mistakes/shortcomings, but we can always improve and we should. Others don't even want to admit they do anything wrong. But maybe it takes a traumatic event to wake up, and we had ours.

That is news to me. I didn't even know that there was a 30 day delay between when it works for the proposal. I guess it's good to know that it was implemented as a safety measure.

Yep, it was added in HF 25, the first real HF after the split, which was in HF 24. It was a couple of months at most from the split to HF 25, which practically distinguished Hive as a different code base, other than a different chain ID and minor differences (like the airdrop, moving the ninja mine and others to the DAO instead of being airdropped, etc.) that were introduced to start the fork in HF 24. They moved very quickly.