Mate in 19!?

jaki01 11 months ago

But watch what the machine says – Mate in 19!

For a chess program it simple doesn't matter (if not told otherwise from the programmer), when it checkmates as long as it does checkmate at all (the result is the same anyway).

0.96 VYB

lighteye 11 months ago

Yes, @jaki01, but… that is not intelligence 🙂

jaki01 11 months ago

I personally would only conclude that it doesn't correspond to our typical (human) idea of aesthetics ...

Consider for example our own life: In the end always death is waiting for us ... would it be more economical/intelligent to die earlier, because the aim of the 'game' is death anyway, or is it nicer to 'play' as long as possible? :-)

0.26 VYB

3 votes

lighteye 11 months ago

It‘s not important when you die. It is important to give meaning to the time between birth and death.

isnochys 11 months ago

Thank you for your witness vote!
Have a !BEER on me!
To Opt-Out of my witness beer program just comment STOP below

0.00 VYB

beerlover 11 months ago

^{View or trade BEER.}

Hey @jaki01, here is a little bit of BEER from @isnochys for you. Enjoy it!

If you like BEER and want to support us please consider voting @louis.witness on HIVE and on HIVE Engine.

0.00 VYB

beerlover 11 months ago

^{View or trade BEER.}

Hey @lighteye, here is a little bit of BEER from @pixresteemer for you. Enjoy it!

If you like BEER and want to support us please consider voting @louis.witness on HIVE and on HIVE Engine.

0.00 VYB

pixresteemer 11 months ago

Bang, I did it again... I just rehived your post!Week 185 of my contest just started...you can now check the winners of the previous week!!BEER₁₁

0.07 VYB

eniolw 11 months ago

I had at least ten minutes of this incredible estimation before my eyes.

There are many explanations for this behavior, which is neither a bug nor a glitch. It has been noticed and reported by many other users.

The simplest one is that the engine applies aggressive prunning, which makes it discard candidate moves, especially if it has already hit a promising branch. Another reason is that the engine was not given enough time to iterate while deepening. In the case of Lichess cloud analysis, Stockfish is set up that way, because we are talking about shared and limited computing resources. It is easy to see that this is what happened, as the analysis is part of the Lichess data associated with the game and is seen to "improve" the evaluation once it is fed with the next position.

This is not something special. Engines whose evaluation function consists of an entire neural network, like the old versions of Leela, used to produce greater oddities. For example, when Leela got a very winning position, her conversion method was to skip the most efficient mates and proceed to "give away" all the pieces until she had only a queen or a rook left, and with that she would checkmate. The human commentators interpreted this as "Leela's willingness to torture her opponent", which is poetic, but had a more technical explanation.

I’ve made screenshots to prove the point of fake ‘AI’…

Good. There are many reports like this on the internet and on the Lichess forums. This does not prove that it is a "fake AI". That sounds like a non-sequitor (or is it satire?).

Any kid starting lessons in chess could do better than Stockfish labeled ‘Artificial Intelligence’.

Haha, very funny. It's very hard to generalize with that, as you are cherrypicking something that is not even a bug or a bad solution, technically. The right thing to do is to compare the performance of kid starting lesson with Stockfish in a wide variety of games and positions. We could use a SPRT test, but I think it won't take tens of thousands of games before we can conclude that there is an abysmal difference in elo between these two players.

That is, you have an expert system which collapses as soon as it come to the position which is not in its database…

It's not clear that Stockfish is an "expert system". I also don't understand the role that the "database" plays in your observation.

Thanks for sharing this anecdote.

3 votes

anli 11 months ago

@lighteyes's post makes up for a nice collection of threads, that's for sure. :-) !invest_vote

0.00 VYB

investinthefutur 11 months ago

@anli denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient!
@anli thinks you have earned a vote of @investinthefutur !

0.00 VYB

https://hive.blog/hive-122315/@lighteye/the-war-debunking-ai-true-danger-part-iii-of-iii-engsrp-rat-demistifikacija-vi-prava-opasnost-deo-iii-od-iii

lighteye 11 months ago

If something deserves to be called ‘intelligence’ it has to fulfill at least few essential criteria.

It is nice that you have such insight in Stockfish functions @eniolw, but you actually prove my point: THIS IS NOT INTELLIGENCE.

See all three parts on fake AI:

https://hive.blog/hive-122315/@lighteye/the-war-debunking-ai-criteria-of-a-genuine-ai-part-ii-of-iii-engsrp-rat-demistifikacija-vi-kriterijumi-istinske-vi-deo-

https://hive.blog/hive-122315/@lighteye/the-war-debunking-ai-chess-intro-part-i-of-iii-engsrp-rat-demistifikacija-vi-shahovski-uvod-deo-i-od-iii

anli 11 months ago

That's indeed a nice collection of resources to fake intelligence. I like your pun. After all it's artificial and not genius, isn't it? And therewith it might not be natural stupidity, but rather artificial as well. I'm in favor of Self-Directed Education for healing as a last resort of hope. Back to natural intelligence. !invest_vote

0.07 VYB

lighteye 11 months ago

Thank you @anli, glad you understand :)

anli 11 months ago

Absofreakin'lutely! !invest_vote

0.00 VYB

investinthefutur 11 months ago

@anli denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient!
@anli thinks you have earned a vote of @investinthefutur !

0.00 VYB

eniolw 11 months ago

Hi! Ok, I'm going over that collection. Check out my initial blog posts about it:

investinthefutur 11 months ago

@anli denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient!
@anli thinks you have earned a vote of @investinthefutur !

0.00 VYB

anli 11 months ago

Thanks for the mention! Funny idea, yes, chess is more fun without AI. Doesn't mean there are not huge databases on how to trick people (into war), are there? While I'm still hoping for some kind of correspondence tourney and simply don't know how something like that might be fun (most favorably chess 960 correspondence). !invest_vote

0.07 VYB

1 vote

rodrook 11 months ago

I don't have a good comment But I enjoyed reading the thread:)...

0.00 VYB