We need to make more babies?

in #hive-165423 • 9 days ago

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According to some powerful people, the fact that we are not having enough children is a world ending problem.

One has to wonder their motivation. Are they really concerned with our happiness?

▶️ 3Speak

#philosophy #musk #capitalism #politics #pob #birthrates
9 days ago in #hive-165423 by
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     9 days ago 

    Japan has been in decreasing population mode for a few years now. The government has been freaking out, demanding people have more kids, but it hasn't been working. The people are too tired from their 18 hour days to have sex, and even if they wanted to, childcare is unaffordable to the middle class and below and the money that school's require is going up so much every year that it's to the point where a middle class family struggles to even afford one kid. People beg the gov to help with this, the gov just gives them the middle finger and says "what, do you hate Japan? have more kids".

    The easy solution to a declining birthrate, immigration, is not considered. The gov refuses to even entertain loosening the gates. So we find no change, just a shrinking population and a government screaming at the overworked and unhappy people to have more kids.

    Sounds like this mess is moving to the West now, or at least to America. Fun!

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       8 days ago 

      if the new administration closes the gates, as you call them, the US would surely enter the death spiral soon enough.

      I have to say, I don't know if it's just a bad thing that the population is reduced in this way. What is the real downside?

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           8 days ago 

          The pool of potential immigrants is drying up anyway.

          You completely misunderstand what happens with well below replacement fertility - is is not a gentle population reduction - it is catastrophic collapse of civilisation - mass suffering and death and a very dark future.

          Fewer consumers means all companies have negative revenue and profit outlooks. Asset prices collapse. People are much poorer. No one invests in new things. Innovation dies. Stagnation and decline are the order of the day.

          Fewer workers and more old dependents leads to an unsustainable situation where infrastructure can't be maintained and starts failing.
          Old people are killed off or left to starve.
          Skills and knowledge to run things are lost. Cascading collapse follows.

          The California fires is just a taste of things to come in a low fertility society.

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               9 days ago 

              Crashing populations of indiginous people in countries critical to the global economy will severely disrupt industry and the economy, plus we need more people producing goods and services via decentralized means to replace the profiteering overlords that are destroying the environment with malevolent development, and help to outcompete them in their efforts to control us by our dependence on them for necessities and the goods and services that create the blessings of civilization. So, I agree we should be having more babies.

              Also, there's little I'd rather do than conceive more babies. I'm willing to do my best.

              Thanks!

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                 8 days ago 

                They are concerned with survival of civilisation.

                Its not "according to some powerful people"; it is basic maths and biology. If fertility continues at well below replacement level in civilised societies those societies will die out.

                It has happened many times before in history (Greek Dark Age, Collapse of Rome and Dark Ages). But this time it is happening to almost all civilisations at once - because culture has gone global.

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                   8 days ago 

                  hey bud, it's great to see you are still around.

                  Well, I'm glad you are pushing back on my point because this is the way we all learn, by having these frictions.

                  PM7ntYI8vtyuW3KyNnCs1p9KnR_Dczf1VGcGuIw9LUw.png

                  it seems to me that the population of the world keeps on growing and exponentially so. I take the concern can be, and maybe this is your case: Who is doing the growing?

                  If this is the concern, again one that I'm not dismissing. Who is to say that these "new peoples" as I'll call them for simplicity are not going to be the new consumers and producers of resources.

                  On the other hand, I do find it hard to believe someone like Musk is speaking from a place of love for humanity. It would be out of character with everything I've seen him do and say.

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                       8 days ago 

                      I've seen various stuff about this. A falling birth rate can mean that old people outnumber the young and make the economics of pensions difficult, but people are having less kids. Women are waiting longer to start a family. That seems to be a common trend as countries get better off. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing as population cannot keep growing indefinitely. The world managed with less people before and in 50 years the balance of old and young may have levelled off.

                      I've heard that Africa will overtake Asia in population before things settle more.

                      What really matters is that everyone has a good chance of a decent life. If local population exhausts local water and food then you have issues. This is part of why people are migrating to Europe and the US. I think a lot of rubbish is talked about them 'replacing' us. A lot of that is just racism.

                      It's complicated and I'm no expert :)

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                         8 days ago 

                        it is a very complicated subject... I think the idea of social safety nets failing if there are too many old people is quite scary, but I can't say I'm truly convinced it would happen just yet.

                        Maybe these are necessary growing pains so we can polish how society functions even more. It's not like we reached the pinnacle of "good living" for everyone.

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                           8 days ago 

                          I think we need forward thinking to find ways to cope if this continues. It should all be about sustainability, but economics has been driven by 'growth'. That is coming to bite us now.