UK Highway Code: New road rule could see car &#x27;passengers&#x27; hit with £1,000 fine

steevc 2 years ago

Article says the passenger fine is if they are supervising a learner. Might need to do navigation, but shouldn't really be looking at Hive when doing that.

2 votes

slobberchops 2 years ago

The point is safety going mad. You remember when you were a kid and there was little of this nonsense? Some of it, is sensible but I crave the times when I could make my own choices. Now it's only like this in 3rd world countries.

0.10 VYB

steevc 2 years ago

Some other countries have much higher road deaths, including the US. Has to be some balance in these things. I would love a self-driving car if they could be at least as good as people. They will improve, but humans won't.

Today some stoned driver rolled their car just up from us taking out a telegraph pole and a wall. People are stupid.

0.03 VYB

4 votes

slobberchops 2 years ago

would love a self-driving car

I am not a great fan of driving and often find myself falling asleep, it's not particularly interesting and needs concentration. A bed in the back would work well!

I hear new cars from 2023 will have speed restrictors and will refuse to break the speed limit. Control again...

0.06 VYB

steevc 2 years ago

Long journeys are tedious in the car and I'd welcome it taking over at least on the motorway. I know some people will do 100mph when they think they can get away with it. Of course they think they are great drivers, but they have little time to react. I wonder if there will be lower speed limits to reduce fuel consumption as the US did years ago. I get that some people drive for fun, but it's mainly about transport and every accident is expensive to deal with. It will be interesting to see how much people fight against further restrictions.

darth-azrael 2 years ago

The max speed limit in the U.S. used to be 55 MPH to save fuel. I think that restriction started in the 1970s and ended some time in the 1990s. I'm not sure what the ideal speed is for fuel efficiency these days. Seems like they would do better to make smarter traffic lights. However, the plan in the U.S. seems to be to force people to buy electric cars. Several states have banned the sale of gas cars starting in 2035. I just had to buy a car and wouldn't have minded an electric car if they weren't so overpriced (I mean even more overpriced than gas cars currently are).

darth-azrael 2 years ago

I suspect the U.S. has a higher number of road deaths than most countries because it has far more drivers than most countries. But if I want to risk my life by not wearing a seat belt then why shouldn't I be able to? If I'm willing to risk my life I'm probably willing to risk a fine so it's clearly about money making more than safety. I would wear my seat belt anyway but I'm just saying...

0.06 VYB

steevc 2 years ago

It's the old debate about the 'nanny state'. How many people would ignore safety advice if it was not enforced?

BTW The US road death rate is four times that of the UK per 100,000 people. Others are far worse.

!BEER

darth-azrael 2 years ago

Per 100,000 people but how does that translate per driving hour? In other words, I'm willing to bet that the average American spends a lot more time driving than the average person in the U.K. More time driving equates to more opportunities for accidents. I could be wrong but it would make sense. The U.S. is more spread out, public transportation isn't as widely used, etc.

In any case, I forgot what the point was. Does the U.K have stricter safety laws? I mean here in the U.S. we have laws against driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, laws against speeding, laws requiring seatbelts, laws requiring air bags (and numerous other safety features), laws requiring car seats for kids...the list goes on and on and on. Not sure how much more strict they could (un)reasonably be. Execute you for speeding maybe?

My point is, I should be able to ignore safety advice if I want (at least if we are talking about my own safety). Most of these laws aren't motivated by a concern for safety, they are motivated by a concern for revenue. Red light cameras are a perfect example. If I misjudge a traffic light and drive through a red light an eighth of a second after it turns red I've literally endangered no one. Still, I'll get that $200 fine (or whatever it is). I got a ticket for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign once. There was no point for this particular stop sign as it was at an intersection of a dead end road. For someone to hit me they would literally have to be running off of the road. Didn't stop me from getting a $180 ticket though. Not a safety issue unless we are talking about the safety of the positive bank account balance of the local city police department/government.

paydice 2 years ago

The knock on effect of doing dumb shit is that you are taking resources away from systems that are already heavily restrained. Smoking should be heavily taxed because by treating smoking cancers means the waiting list is longer for other treatments.

If you fine me for parking or driving dangerously there is at least some chance I won't do it again.

0.00 VYB

darth-azrael 2 years ago

In the U.S., there isn't much of a waiting list for most things as far as medical treatment. There are a million things that are bad for you. Should we have extra taxes on people who drive more, eat more fast food, scuba dive, parasail, exercise less, etc.? In a system in which people pay for their own medical care and insurance, smoking is your own business (and perhaps that of your insurance company). But there's no shortage of medical care that isn't created by government intervention. I mean, there's a definite shortage of free medical care to be sure.

If I'm driving dangerously, I'm endangering other people. That's different than not wearing a seatbelt in which case you are really only endangering yourself.

0.00 VYB

2 votes

paydice 2 years ago

drive more
There is tax on petrol (gasoline) and diesel by volume purchased

eat more fast food
In various parts of the world there are taxes on sugary drinks, single use bags and containers

It's fairly reasonable to have these taxes to offset the negative externalities whether it's environmental or pressure on healthcare.

That's different than not wearing a seatbelt in which case you are really only endangering yourself.

Well if you put it in a wall and you go through the windscreen someone might have to try save you or break the news to your loved ones etc.

In America for healthcare you're mostly fine if you have money or good insurance.
In Europe/Canada unless you can afford to get treatment privately or It's covered by insurance then there are waiting lists and delays to get treatment.

In those countries if everyone is paying for everyone's healthcare which is probably an ethically good thing to do for society if done efficiently and fairly then some taxes on being stupid that can help fund better service are probably a good idea. Minimum alcohol pricing for example reduces liver diseases and other harm from alcohol.

I think if you participate in dangerous sports you should get adequate training and preparation for accidents. Maybe if horse jumping or surfing or whatever caused disproportionate costs to society then gear or training could be taxed higher but it wouldn't be in the same category as parking somewhere that could highly likely cause an accident or smoking or drinking or fast food. Things that society should discourage for the benefit of everyone.

the perspective is different between Europe and America and I don't think there's an exact right answer on social policies. I understand the libertarian reasoning of leave me alone and don't interfere in my life

0.00 VYB

darth-azrael 2 years ago

At the end of the day, it comes down to how much you trust government with your money. At the end of the day, i don't. At all. And there are plenty of obvious reasons why.

Just for example, gas taxes exist supposedly to pay for roads, etc. but often they get redirected to other things. In Florida there is a state run lottery that started back in the 1980s. The profits were supposed to go to schools. It makes an obscene amount of money. I don't know where the money is going but sales taxes go up, property taxes go up (as a percent) and never go down. Yet they don't have enough money to pay teachers a reasonable salary. It's absurd. So, while I don't believe that NO government is the answer, I also don't believe that MORE government is the answer and firmly believe it is way too big as it is. "Big" defined here basically refers to what percent of the economy they control.

Government should be there for basic services and arguably as a safety net. The problem is that "safety net" has grown to become all encompassing control of wide swaths of people's life. Monopoly's are not generally good which is why I'm not a fan of the idea of single payer healthcare. It reduces competition, increasing overall costs and slowing progress. Government as a safety net health care provider for those that can't afford it? Maybe. But inevitably these things seem to grow out of control.

The Affordable Health Care Act (A.K.A. Obamacare) you would assume was designed to make health care more affordable. For SOME people it did by enabling them to get insurance when they otherwise would not have been able to. However, it had the effect of reducing competition among insurance companies and for MOST people increasing insurance costs (which were already quite expensive) a SIGNIFICANT amount. So trust government in these matters? Not likely.

At the end of the day, people should be responsible for themselves. I'm not saying they shouldn't get help if they need it but it shouldn't be the government's base job to take care of you. The government is not your mommy and it is not your daddy. If I wind up in the hospital because I'm not wearing a seatbelt then that should be MY responsibility. Fining me for it is stupid. Note: I always wear my seatbelt but that is and should be my decision. The logical extension of the idea that government should make you pay for risky activities that might incur a cost to society (mainly because government has elected to pay for such costs in the first place) is to simply ban everything. Fast food? banned. Cigars? banned. Alcohol? banned. Watching too much TV? banned. Honestly, that's not the society I want. Lets go the other direction. If my actions incur a cost then I should pay for it. If they don't, stop stealing my money. We teach kids to be responsible. Why can't adults be?

0.00 VYB

beerlover 2 years ago

^{View or trade BEER.}

Hey @darth-azrael, here is a little bit of BEER from @steevc for you. Enjoy it!

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0.00 VYB

preparedwombat 2 years ago

Attractive women on the sidewalk are distracting. Ban them!

darth-azrael 2 years ago

Worrying about which of 28,000 laws I might be violating at any given moment is distracting too...much rather see those banned :)

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emma-h 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure you nailed it when you asked "Are the government so desperate to extract every last penny from the general public to help fill their cesspit of endless debt?"

Of course they are! It's quite pathetic that they're stooping this low, I'm sure there are better things to spend their time doing.

slobberchops 2 years ago

It does feel that way, but it's the lack of freedom that concerns me and every year a little more is taken away from us.

0.00 VYB

emma-h 2 years ago

I totally agree with you, they are tightening the noose just a little more day by day. I can understand why you say that UrbEx feel so freedom loving, it is the fact that you are in control and aren't having to abide by some power hungry moron looking over your shoulder saying "Don't step on that one, it's rotten"...The government has become the epitome of the helicopter parent!

slobberchops 2 years ago

In the case of the above picture.., I didn't go that way, grabbing the banister as a safety net when it's burnt isn't such a great idea. It will be a while before the full story gets published. It used to be a brothel 😀

0.00 VYB

emma-h 2 years ago

Oh my gosh, if that's the case, I don't know that touching anything is a good idea, banister included 🤣

I'll keep an eye out for it, should be a good one!

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revisesociology 2 years ago

Isn't vaping illegal too while you're driving just not fags>?

It is all bizarre.

slobberchops 2 years ago

I'm not sure, why do they still have those fag lighters in cars?

0.00 VYB

revisesociology 2 years ago

When was the last time you bought a relatively new car?

My 2015 Hyundai doesn't have one, so maybe they are not standard anymore?

slobberchops 2 years ago

It's a good point, and as I don't smoke I haven't checked. I have a 2020 car, @bingbabe has a 2019.

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bashadow 2 years ago

Are bicycle helmets mandatory now in England? What about head, knee and elbow protection for people on skateboards or roller-skates? I remember when riding a bike it was as simple as getting on it, no special clothes or things needed. Same with roller skating and skate boards. We have been living in a nanny state in the States for quite awhile now.

People wonder what happened to the independent thinkers, they have been bred out of society.

slobberchops 2 years ago

I had to look just to make sure...

Wearing a helmet whilst cycling is not a legal requirement in the UK.

How long before it is. There have been some statements that cyclists may need insurance to ride, a license to ride and can be fined for speeding over 20mph. It could be shit, my wife sends me lots of these things! Tell that to a 10 year old.

I rode when young without a helmet always, took many risks and only came off once. I still have a scar to prove it. Shit happens.

0.00 VYB

bashadow 2 years ago

It is part of growing up, fresh road tar and a ten speed at speed makes for a sudden stop and busted open chin. You would think after the first time I would have learned, I didn't, did it again only on a patch of gravel. Getting hurt is a part of the learning process. I can see a day where every kid has to be dressed up like a baseball catcher just to go out and play.