Hive Proposal: (Any second layer could adopt and I'd be happy, too)

bobthebuilder2 in #hive-167922 • 3 years ago

The Proposal

Have someone create a referral link that, when used and the new account is verified, 25 HP (or whatever) is delegated to the new person's account from the referrer, and in exchange for the referring and the delegation, the referrer becomes a 5% beneficiary of every blog post by the referred.

This idea could be implemented either for a 2nd Layer token or for all of Hive in general...(preference is Hive in general, bleeding into 2nd layer)

Background:

In the earlier days of the internet, there were many "Get Paid to be Online" type companies that would have you download a banner that played ads. I got paid $0.50/hour that I ran those ads. That's nice...

They had another bonus.

Referrals:

If you referred someone, you got $0.10/hour that your referral used the banner and there was a referral bonus for the person they referred and they referred, etc.

Results:

In just a couple of years, I had referred over 1,000 people. I was bringing in a good chunk of change every month for a long time.

Proposal:

3-Parts:

Referral Link
Hive Power Delegation
Beneficiary

I know that ecency has a referral link. I know Hive.blog even has a referral link (doesn't work, but they have one. I printed a QR code to my link on a shirt). This is what I propose...

I want a referral link to Hive where when someone signs up, I am put in as their beneficiary for 5% of all of their post/comment earnings for a year as the end goal. The purpose of the 5% is to encourage people to refer others to our community in a greater capacity; however, I want there to be a catch. I want the person who uses the referral link to be forced to delegate 50 HP to the person signing up. Sound like a lot?

Reason:

I recently helped someone sign up (a few people, really). The first thing they found out is that their resource credits are eaten up really fast...right when they are the most passionate about getting started. Because I referred them, I want them to succeed. I'm actively coaching them on how to get started. I also delegated 100 HP to each of them (4 at the same time). This allowed them to comment more, post, and get involved in a bigger way. If you don't delegate, they can post about 5 comments and they're done until the next day when they get to make another 2 comments.

Obviously, this is quite an investment from my account to help them get started. They get to benefit by curating, commenting, and posting more from the get go. Perhaps you won't agree with me, but I coach them not to post a blog post for a week-to just comment until they've built up enough ecency points to promote their first post for a minimum of 2 days. This way, they get a lot of people they can meet, get to know how Hive works, and earn some Hive while understanding the different communities, etc. They also get the benefit of gaining ecency points and making the biggest impact possible from their first post. With 100 HP, their vote is worth $0.01 and they can actually see what benefit there is in having HP. They're more likely to power up. They're more likely to have someone explain how Hive works and not get disappointed after 30 minutes to never return to Hive. They get someone who tells them how to save their keys and what they are, how to get hivesigner and the keychain set up...etc.

https://giftgiver.site/ is a nice site for helping newbies get some more resource credits when they've run out, but what newbie is going to know about it without a coach?

@ryzeonline wrote https://ecency.com/hive-189306/@ryzeonline/hive-a-complete-beginners-guide-with-fun-doodles-pt-1 and it is extremely detailed and very useful...but again, if you don't coach someone into finding it, how will they? Most people who join Hive will quit before they've had a chance to find it. @brittandjosie and others are extremely helpful in helping people get started by making a comment on most new Hivian's first posts, but how much greater would it be if someone got a coach before even signing up?

Needs:

On point 1: I don't know how to program any of this, or I would have already. Creating a referral link seems to be easy enough because ecency has one and hive.blog has an inactive one...but I would want it coded to add the other things...

Point 2: If someone wants to use the referral link and gain the 5% beneficiary for one year, they should have some skin in the game via Hive Power they delegate to the newcomer. It could be as small as 25-50 HP. This would give a low enough barrier of entry that the referrer would have to have some value in the community, too, even if just a fiat to crypto investment into Hive. This delegation would need to be locked in for 4-6 months at a minimum, but if you're going to get a 5% beneficiary lock in, 1 year seems adequate. There could be a drop-off period where if the referred becomes inactive for more than a month, the HP reverts back to the referrer? It's an idea. I would think all this is programmable via the blockchain...like a smart contract.

Point 3: In the Proof of Brain community, there was a recent moment where @proofofbrainio was able to be locked in as a 10% beneficiary. Once I saw that was possible, I knew it would be a great way to incentivize referrers to get others on board.

Referring back to the introduction, I worked much harder bringing people on board when I knew I would be able to get a bonus (earnings from their hard work) and it was locked in. Bringing others on board when I know I will get 5% of what they earn is enough of an incentive to have me push the referred into creating great content and earning as much as they can. It's nice to think that I can create an ad, pay for it to be seen on YouTube to gain new folks and have the Hive community support my content in return to pay for the ads; however, the people watching would likely just fall off the cliff like lemmings who never had a chance because they jumped once their resource credits died...it's a complicated system as we all know.

I'd love to hear some of your thoughts! Tag anyone in the comments who you think needs to see this to consider it's possibility...

from Unsplash:

The Proposal

Have someone create a referral link that, when used and the new account is verified, 25 HP (or whatever) is delegated to the new person's account from the referrer, and in exchange for the referring and the delegation, the referrer becomes a 5% beneficiary of every blog post by the referred.

Posted Using LeoFinance ^Beta

#hive #proofofbrain #hivepower #referral #proposal #ecency #beneficiary #marketing #vyb #leofinance

3 years ago in #hive-167922 by bobthebuilder2

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ryzeonline 3 years ago

Great idea, and I totally agree, but it would require proactivity from the coders, developers, and community on this blockchain, which so far, I've seen very little of. Still I'm eager for that inaction to change, and hopefully your proposal can spark such things. :) 🙏

1.89 VYB

1 vote

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

I wish I had time to learn the coding languages... I'd do it myself. The "service" could be paid for through a 1 HP delegation to an account at the same time that 14HP or 24HP would be delegated to the newbie, both being put on a smart contract "timer" so that this account would essentially work as a bot to upvote with a curation trail, specifically curating account trails that focus on newbie content. The curation awards would then be siphoned off as needed to pay the developer's cost to maintain the portal that holds the code.

I could see it being a website where you as the referrer goes to enter your username and does a Hive Keychain approved contract that delegates 1HP to the developer for the ability to use the referral link. The delegation can activate the approval for hp delegation for the referral link's use...

Thoughts off the top of my head.

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ryzeonline 3 years ago

I actually did learn the basics of coding in a variety of languages, and have even made a game prototype, but the idea of personally hand-coding changes on the blockchain doesn't really call to me, so I leave it to others. :)

Your ideas have potential, there'd likely be ways to abuse it for people who are code/tech/blockchain savvy, but I'm sure those can be curbed. Wishing you lots of success, either way! 🙏

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brittandjosie 3 years ago

Have someone create a referral link that, when used and the new account is verified, 25 HP (or whatever) is delegated to the new person's account from the referrer, and in exchange for the referring and the delegation, the referrer becomes a 5% beneficiary of every blog post by the referred.

It’s Christmas Eve so bookmarking it but initial I say yes

1.61 VYB

4 votes

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joerhino 3 years ago

Not sure I fully agree, but it is definitely moving the arrow in the right direction. Good points and definitely worth implementing some of these. I know PeakD has a referral link and auto adds the referrer as a beneficiary until you remove them.

I agree with @acidyo and don't like the "forced" option.

Maybe a one-time referral reward from the pool? Allow the front end referrer uses to set their own bounty? Not sure. Just throwing 4am thoughts against the wall.

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

I didn't know peakd automatically forced the referrer as a beneficiary. What percentage do they put it in for? I personally like the forced option... I'd just want it to have a sunset period or a phasing out. If I had a referrer, I'd totally have been OK letting them reap some benefit temporarily for introducing me to something as awesome as Hive is and has been...I found it when I was looking to get back into steemit.

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joerhino 3 years ago

I am pretty sure it is forced, but then again it has been a while since I used it so I may be wrong. Maybe @jarvie can tell us. Always better to get from the horse's mouth.

Could be that a limit of a month or two, not sure. Interesting concept though.

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

@lordbutterfly Here's a proposal I had. I felt a ping for a ping was in order lol

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liftslikealady 3 years ago

I honestly don't know how someone would be able to continue progressing without help along the way. There is such a learning curve here. I can't wait to get more well-versed in everything. It takes time, but if you are along trying to figure it out, how long will one last??

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2 votes

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

I've lasted 4 years... but I'm obsessed about learning it...

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hivebuzz 3 years ago

Congratulations @bobthebuilder2! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s):

You distributed more than 1750 upvotes.
Your next target is to reach 2000 upvotes.

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To support your work, I also upvoted your post!

Check out the last post from @hivebuzz:

	Merry Christmas - Challenge Feedback - Win a 1000 HP delegation
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Support the HiveBuzz project. Vote for our proposal!

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jaxsonmurph 3 years ago

Brilliant Idea, I would definitely like to see something like this implemented, referrals are a motivating factor for many to push onboarding and could create massive user adoption from outside sources.

The fact that the new user would be delegation hive, would ensure they had enough resource credit to give them a substantial kick start that would also benefit the benefactor, who in turn would generate an addition 5% of any future blogs, from those they onboard.

My only questions are.

Is something like this currently available on hive?
Could it be easily implemented?
And what resources would need to be set aside for a Dev to take on such a project?

If it is possible that such a proposal could be implemented, maybe as a community we could crowd fund any Dev costs as it would benefit the entire community.

I look forward to reading what others think and how we could move towards achieving such goals.

0.46 VYB

2 votes

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

I know Hive.blog and ecency have referral links, so that's doable. I've been looking for nearly a year (since I got to Hive) and haven't found one like this.

Implementation should be fairly easy to program, but it would require a developer some time... based on my limited knowledge of coding, it seems like it should be simple.

As for resources, that's a question I can't answer but would definitely like to see answered, too.

Thank you so much for your contributing comment!

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jaxsonmurph 3 years ago

I would definitely support such a proposal and in addition to community crowd funding to cover Dev costs, I was thinking maybe we could also consider something along the lines of creating posts with a Devs account recieving a percentage of any associated posts as a beneficiary to help offset the resources needed.

I look forward to following how this proposal moves forward.

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cryptocharmers 3 years ago

Can you send me a link or something about the @proofofbrainio 10% beneficiary lock-in? From reading your post this specific point is the one that I would like to see more about before trying to outline such system in my head.
As for smart contracts, I will note that there is not built in smart contract support in Hive itself yet, which is why most people do go the route of second layer tokens and use services such as hive-engine.

From my current knowledge, (the @proofofbrainio lock-in above you discussed would change this) beneficiaries are selected and not really locked in except for when posting to certain communities/through separate channels. However, you can always just add an additional beneficiary. From this, at the very least, you could have a system of "refer and support" where you hook them up with knowledge and guidance (and even delegated Hive Power as needed) and in return ask/require them to add you as a beneficiary. Then on the back-end you could just keep the (automatic) tally of anyone who's not following the guidelines and essentially cut them off. I know this becomes more of a trust-then-validate system but in my opinion would be more simple initially.

Future implementations could be a website/application which houses pretty much everything - like LeoFinance but with a goal of on-boarding, referral, growth, etc. And in that system you could easily lock-in a percentage beneficiary for all interactions within it.
-Ace

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

He had it locked in for a while. I think there was some backlash and it was removed. I know onealfa had made a post about not upvoting people with that beneficiary attached... couple months ago.

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cryptocharmers 3 years ago

Okay I see, from looking into it from my perspective I'm not sure if his "locked in" delegation requirement would have affected all posts or just the ones posted within his own site/network/communities.

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

I believe it was only the ones who used the proofofbrain front end. As I remember it, it was 10% if using the front end and a 20% reduction of the tag was used but not posted via the front end.

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acidyo 3 years ago

Not a fan of this, first off we already have something like this. I onboarded about 600 accounts a couple weeks ago, then manually went through the referral page on peakd and delegated people hivepower when they were starting to run low. For this part the idea would be good (to automatically delegate) though I'd prefer if it instead did that when the referred account actually started using Hive and needed it. With RC delegations coming up this would be a lot more useful without needing to care if they actually need it as you wouldn't lose any curation returns from delegating RC.

Forcing the referred user to give you 5% of their posts is what I'm not a fan of, referrals shouldn't be forced even if you delegate them HP and with RC especially not as it doesn't give Hive a good light. That said many are already happy to give the referrer some rewards and don't instantly remove the beneficiaries placed by the onboarding gateway or they don't realize it until later when they've learned more about Hive and that should be okay, i.e. we shouldn't expect people to give you beneficiaries just because you've onboarded them (especially if you haven't used your own account credits or paid 3 hive for the account creation). For the latter though, maybe there's some options in the future where you could enforce some sort of beneficiary system if you actually pay the 3 hive up front until they've recuperated that cost, but this should be something discussed with the onboarded user before hand and come to an agreement which means they could just manually send you the 3 hive later.

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

Resource credit delegation would be good. I didn't know that could be done. I know that I can post dozens of comments without batting an eye, but my newly on-boarded folks struggle to do more than 2 a day if they don't have a delegation... the other reason for the hp delegation is so their vote is worth something... we tell them they can earn from curation, but they don't when they're new without a hp delegation large enough to increase their vote's worth. I delegated 95-100 hp to my folks (gladly did) so their vote would be worth $0.01 instead of 0.001. They got to comment more and vote more, making them feel more like a part of the community from the get go... food for thought.

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acidyo 3 years ago

Yeah I understand that, I just don't think we should enforce a quid pro quo on giving them bigger delegations to be able to see that they can earn something from curation. I don't even think there's a way to "enforce" accounts to give beneficiaries from the code so I doubt it's something that needs to be discussed too much, unless there's a front-end that doesn't let you remove them. I hope it'll be enough that new users create some good posts, and earn some HP early on to then be able to see with their own eyes that they can earn CR with the HP they've earned.

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

I totally hear ya... though the marketer/business man in me says I'd be willing to advertise on a larger scale if I knew the money I would pay toward advertising would result in income that would pay for my advertising. For instance, I brought @liftslikealady on board a month ago. She's made some engaging content and has been rewarded over 100hp worth in such a short period. As a 5% beneficiary, I would have earned 5hp worth. That's about $9USD worth. The advertising needed to find her and on-board her would have likely been close to that if not more (because a click through an ad doesn't always mean someone starts a new account or even posts). In this case, she's my sister, so no advertising was necessary.

There are some that might want Hive to grow organically... I'm good with scaling it up. There must be a direct benefit, in my opinion, if someone is going to mass on-board quality folks...

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acidyo 3 years ago

Ah okay I see what you mean, I may have missed the advertising point when I skimmed through the post. We have an onboarding program in @ocdb, to give the onboarders some extra incentives we also compile the first posts of the onboarded users so the onboarders get some extra 1 time rewards for the effort of onboarding and guiding them in their first steps on Hive on top of the automatic beneficiaries that hiveonboard places on them. So it comes from general post rewards instead of directly from the onboarded user, maybe something like that could be better, what do u think?

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bobthebuilder2 3 years ago

The only issue I see with that is the new user has to wait 7 days for the payout. By the time that takes place, you've lost the newbie. The resource credits and vote value make it hard to keep encouraged as a new account, I think. Others may chime in but those are my thoughts.

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