The Web 3 Delusion

curatorcat.leo 2 years ago

I'm reminded of an old truism/saying from where I grew up:

"The Pastor made a long speech and said nothing at all!"

The jargon surrounding Web 3.0 feels a bit like that.

Without a doubt, the web is evolving. However, it also seems like each iteration of "New and Improved" is little more than putting a new dress on what already exists. What I find disturbing is that everybody somehow operates under the ~~illusion~~ delusion that their system is somehow exempt from the fundamentals of human psychology and behavior.

=^..^=

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chekohler 2 years ago

Short of having application payments that don't need 3rd party custody the rest I don't see where its applicable or how it cannot be exploited. But it's all about agreeing with the group and that being hopeful even of nonsense is a positive thing.

I agree the discounting of physical limitations of digital, human psychology and behaviour as well as risk is criminal in this space. To think because you have an algo managing something that humans won't go against it is just dumb

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cmplxty.leo 2 years ago

Yeah it’s all a marketing shit in my opinion lol. I don’t get into debates with people on it but it’s shit I think.

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chekohler 2 years ago

LOL it's this mythic creature that rises up from nowhere fueled only through altruism and the need to make you wealthy, just don't ask questions

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mypathtofire 2 years ago

It reminds me of the old adage. Ask an Electrician what is electricity?
They won't be able to answer you because we don't know. They know how to use it, manipulate it, and connect it. But to know what it is, they don't know.

You can repeat the same story with mobile phones, no one really knows how they work and now your adage with the internet and web3.

Great post! :)

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chekohler 2 years ago

I don't think that's true, sure most normies aren't into the weeds on the topic, but like electricity, mobile phones, there's a clear use case, there are industries around it, and there are people who can show you the fundamentals. Blockchain is now meant to be this ethereal think you shouldn't question that the computer gods birthed. lol

When you find a problem any of these shitcoins facilitate better than what we already have, let me know coz I don't see it

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mypathtofire 2 years ago

As usual you have smashed a huge hole in the Web3 ship! You mean to say there wont be any big adoption of crypto?

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chekohler 2 years ago

I am asking you, you're the crypto guy, where will the adoption and disruption come from? What can crypto do that anything else can't do?

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mypathtofire 2 years ago

i guess if everything is tokenised, there could be an impact on cash, the structure of companies, less requirement for banks, more open/transparent society, money that appreciates instead of depreciates, no 3rd party involved in money or transactions like banks or central banking. New ownership models for businesses. More value on human actions like we see with move2earn,play2earn. People can earn for using services not just providing them etc.

It could see a real shift towards rewarding those who are most productive in society.

Just some ideas off the top of my head. I guess you would need to watch a Taskmaster video to get the best answer. :)

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chekohler 2 years ago

How do you plan to enforce real-world implications with tokensiation? Are you going to come to me with a token and tell me that it enforces ownership of your home? How would you keep track of that ownership? If I have the key to that wallet does that mean I know own your home or any tokenised asset?

How does any of that you mentioned have no 3rd party involvement when you're trusting third party validators, software and custodians with the tokens you're using right now? Are you running a node an interacting with the networks you speak of? Do you validate that all the information is true? How do you know it's there and enforced?

Explain that to me

Taskmaster hasn't written a piece of code in his life, I have, his hardly someone I would listen to for any source of tech advice, he just speaks about theories and discounts practical issues

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mypathtofire 2 years ago

youve just crushed my dreams now.

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beco132 2 years ago

I agree with almost everything you wrote, but this:

Are you going to come to me with a token and tell me that it enforces ownership of your home?

Why not, isn't it how the current system works? And tracking and validating data are the main problems that the blockchain solves

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thatcryptodave 2 years ago

I've known deep down for a while that it's all just a game. The whole "Web 1" phenomenon, the "connectedness" of Web 2, the "decentralization" of blockchains and cryptos... and now the "ownership" of Web 3. All steaming piles alongside the same cart path we've been walking.

And we are including #Hive in this conversation too, right? These "Web 3" claims are a prominent feature of Hivian philosophy... that we are owners of our experience, staked community members with our hands on the wheel.

These discussions are important, but so complex! I appreciate any prompt like this which will lift even a thread of the veil here and there. So thanks! 🙏

!hivebits
!LUV

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luvshares 2 years ago

⚠ The LUVbot will soon require that no other ! commands accompany it. Details here.

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chekohler 2 years ago

Explain to me where the ownership comes in? Because you have private keys signing a transaction? Private keys that HAVE been forked off the network in the past, private keys that HAVE been forked to be held hostage by witnesses in the past

You don't own data unless you're running the sever yourself, if you're not, you're just larping and even then I can give you countless reasons of where the risk is running your own sever.

web 3 is like a McDonalds drive-through telling you their food is farm to table, organically sourced, if it was it wouldn't be so shit for you. It's not complex if you use basic logic

thatcryptodave 2 years ago

Agreed.
Our species is in a nosedive. 🙄

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chekohler 2 years ago

Nothing wrong with accepting reality and bumping your head, that's the only way you truly learn

india-leo 2 years ago

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boscohage 2 years ago

You made a huge point but is this hostility or trying to bring to our attention what's missing?

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chekohler 2 years ago

Does it make a difference, facts are facts

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boscohage 2 years ago

It was rhetorical, facts are certainly facts.

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eatthebugs 2 years ago

Web 3 is not bullshit. If it wasn't for web 3, the covid doomers might have actually succeeded in scaring the world into believing their bullshit and the MSM lies.

Web 3 allowed many, many different outlets to pop up that weren't wholesale controlled by centralized authorities or established enterprise legacy media conglomerates.

Where would we be if we didn't have all the archive footage of the creators of mRNA and Kary Mullis, inventor of PCR, calling out Anthony Fauci, the NIH and big pharma?

NONE of that was allowed on Youtube. To this day, you cannot find the original video of Kary Mullis on Youtube saying that Anthony Fauci is responisble for AIDs from the 1990s.

You know where you can find those videos easily? On Odysee or on Bitchute or on Theta or here on Hive, for that matter.

I know what Web 3 projects you hate, I think, and I also don't like those projects but saying all of Web 3 is bullshit isn't taking a holistic view of Web 3.

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chekohler 2 years ago

Those projects aren't web 3 they are just alternative media sites, you're trying to lump things in under web 3 as to avoid criticism of this loose ideology. Literally all those sites you mentioned could be taken down, so they're not immutable they just small and pose no real threat or worth attacking

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eatthebugs 2 years ago

THey can be taken down, sure, LBRY.tv was "retired" because the SEC sued LBRY Inc which is the blockchain Odysee runs on and which took over from LBRY.tv

Alternative media sites are the backbone of what Web 3, as it is now, actually represents. Alternative sites hosted on-chain and with elements of open-source/decentralization are miles better than KuckerbergBook and CIA/Mossad owned Alphabet-approved Google properties.

If there was a resilient, sufficiently decentralized, million-user alternative web 3 site; it would be a big deal. you know that's true

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chekohler 2 years ago

Not really now if you're not using an ICCAN domain, which can be taken down, and you're spinning up new front ends your product will be doomed to remain in the shadows, the internet is decentralised, but that doesn't mean you achieve any meaningful scale if you opt for real decentralisaiton. if you're going to be worthwhile you centralize.

If google chooses to remove your listings of any of those sites you really think its' going to survive?

Are you hosting any of that content on your personal server? Then how can you claim it's decentralised?

Alternative media still plays by the rules, if you want to drink the kool-aid that's fine but you're not convincing me with these half baked claims

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eatthebugs 2 years ago

What kool-aid are you referring to?

Google bans videos on YouTube of Kary Mullis stating explicitly that PCR should not be used to identify viral infection because that is not its purpose and that, with enough cycles of magnification, any type of infection can be "confirmed" through PCR.

You cannot find them, in any language, in any upload. They do not exist on YouTube as of 2020.

They're everywhere on Odysee and Bitchute and on 3Speak. All of those are on AWS servers, as far as I know, and we know that Amazon is pro-covid and WAPO, owned by Bezos, is pro covid and would never allow publication of such truth.

Web 3 is in its nascent period and it's emergent. I think you're adamant about your position that Web 3 is a scam marketing ethos/term/groupthink but I'm putting my money on the bet that you're going to be seeing Web 3 grow whether you want it or not.

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chekohler 2 years ago

Exactly it's on AWS, it can be placed on these sites but because it matters so little in terms of reach, you're only getting the illusion of optionality. Go ahead shout in your corner of crazies where no one will take you seriously and if you ever did get some virality it could be shut down or removed.

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eatthebugs 2 years ago

So, if I'm crazy and Web 3 hopefuls are crazy, is there another path forward from Web 2?

Will communities of self-hosted decentralized, pro free-speech digital natives be able to take back the web from corporations and ESG demonic entities?

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slhp 2 years ago

Marketing aside, is this the natural evolution of the web? Or this revolutionary? What are the alternatives to this hot mess? Or is this the best we have?

If this is not it, what's is it?

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yintercept 2 years ago

Here, I Will Take a Stab at Defining Web 3.0

Web 3.0 is an evolutionary phenomena in the self-actualization of the web-o-sphere as mankind and machine-kind converge a priori in a bi-laterally connected thesis/anti-thesis pattern that leads to a transcendent congnitive state.

To bring in an expert on this evolutionary paradigm shift, I quote Sub Pearce which does a better job at generating this stuff than me.

We are in the midst of an eternal condensing of science that will let us access the cosmos itself. Humankind has nothing to lose. Who are we? Where on the great myth will we be reborn?

By deepening, we self-actualize. Consciousness consists of morphic resonance of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a flowering of the life-affirming. Nothing is impossible.

PS Thanks for Calling Out the Absurdity of the Rhetoric Surrounding Web 3.0

Buzz words are often used by people don't really understand that the technology. It is really scary that a large number of people calling themselves Web 3.0 experts display a poor understanding of basic finance and economics.

They also have no idea about internet history. I think the best way to pop-bubbles is to point out that Web 2.0 was really just a marketing event held by O'Reilly Media in 2004.

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3 votes

goldgrifin007 2 years ago

Buzz words are often used by people don't really understand that the technology. It is really scary that a large number of people calling themselves Web 3.0 experts display a poor understanding of basic finance and economics.

They also have no idea about internet history. I think the best way to pop-bubbles is to point out that Web 2.0 was really just a marketing event held by O'Reilly Media in 2004.

Uh-oh, Dear @yintercept , Do you mean that I have to understand Web 3.0 from a basic finance and economic point of view?

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chekohler 2 years ago

There's a certain thing called physics and reality here that people don't have an appreciation for, a computer a data base a blockchain cannot enforce any rules on the real world, data can be copied at Infinitum, and if we look at bitcoin's system it is self-contained for a reason.

All this non-sense web 3 is trying to lead people into assuming you can apply the principles of bitcoin to any form of data but it's simply not true, as soon as the provider of the data, even something as simple as time is external it fucks up, that's why bitcoin has an internal clock by design.

Web 3 is just a nice way of selling unregistered securities and half-backed products to people who have no idea what goes on when they boot up their PC but think they are tech experts

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nathen007.leo 2 years ago

Its about the same level of bollocks as the suggestion that PoS is anything different to the way the current financial systems work. Whales are just the same as big traditional shareholders and carry the same power in the 'token economy' as the big shareholders wield in the traditional stock market based economy.

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chekohler 2 years ago

Top lad, POS is simply proof of seigniorage, it cannot avoid it's centralising forces, only someone high on the totem pole would say it doesn't because it benefits them for you to think it's an even playing field, so you buy their token and provide exit liquidity for them

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goldgrifin007 2 years ago

I've had an internet job for a decade now, I work in the back end of the internet, I've worked with venture capital, I've worked with startups, I've worked in corporate, and I've seen how it operates. I'd like to think that experience taught me a few things, that I share with you in my blog but people choose to ignore.

Most people spouting off web 3 don't even know how a webpage loads in their browser, so how can you trust anything they say? If you have no clue how the thing you're supposedly improving works, how do you know you're improving on it?

Dear @chekohler, What is web 3?
I understood that web 3 was part of the internet browser.

Is web 3 a business company that earns advertising fees based on the number of views people get?

I am sorry for many questions!😅

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chekohler 2 years ago

Short answer it's bullshit

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2 votes

goldgrifin007 2 years ago

I understand! A newbie like me will not understand even if you explain.😅

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wrestlingdesires 2 years ago

Have you talked to Theycallmedan? He's quite knowledgeable on the subject, and could probably explain Web 3 better than most.

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chekohler 2 years ago

I've listed to his rants and I have to say, a lot of word salad and very little practical implementation of how it's achieved

magnacarta 2 years ago

People make a big deal about "cloud computing" as if it's some big deal, but I've been using "cloud computing" since 1997. Back then it was called HoTMaiL (web-based e-mail, many years before it was acquired by Microsoft).

Let's start with the proposition that Web3 is just marketing bullshit. It sounds nice compared to what came before, and it even offers hints at a paradigm shift, but behind the words is the reality that BS is BS.

How do we move from the BS of Web3 to make Web3 what it truly needs to be from your perspective? For me, there are 3 points which need to be addressed:

At a minimum, it needs to be decentralized in the way the Internet was meant to be: resilient enough to survive the impacts of a nuclear strike or a natural catastophe.
When it comes to communication via e-mail, it has to be secure from start to finish, which was never a consideration when SMTP was established in the early days of the Internet.
With KYC involved in everything, how do we divorce things like MAC Addresses and IEMI numbers from accounts so that there is some measure of privacy if not anonymity? If that divorce can't happen, could some layer be added where identifiers get scrambled first?

If the real Web3 can offer these things at a minimum, then I think maybe we have something closer to what you envision. If not, then we need to be honest with the situation you presented here and stop fooling ourselves.

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chekohler 2 years ago

Exactly if you're leveraging a 3rd party server that's cloud computing, they just rebranded the same old shit and scaled it up and now its a whole new thing.

To me the meaningful improvement to the web would be payments, which bitcoin provides, and then affordable personal servers, affordable mesh nets and satelite internet so you're not cut off and the barrier to entry is not limited to your ISP.

To me it would be like you say device ownership, scrubbing manufacturers firmware,and adding more layers of privacy you feel comfortable with when you own a piece of tech

Web 3 is not

Using the stock OS
To login to a 3rd party software
To query a 3rd party server and blockchain
That references an image on a 3rd party server and then calling your NFT decentralised

My brain pains when I see these normies who don't know how tech works spout this nonsense

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2 votes

eatthebugs 2 years ago

I think a lot more people understand this than you are giving them credit for. Even non-tech people know that everything on their computers is at-best spyware if it's Windows or Apple.

We know that the internet is a big honey pot but we use it anyway because we don't want to be killed for creating our own server and branching out from there to other linux users somehow bypassing or obfuscating our actions to our ISP and to data brokers etc.

Like, most people understand this I reckon. Most people aren't happy and most people know that there are powers and systems out there that wholly capture their thoughts and activities for profit and at their displeasure.

I don't think you need to antagonize people here and call them crazy or otherwise attempt to belittle them because you think their opinion is bad.

go on a walk dude. it's peaceful.

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magnacarta 2 years ago

So while "Be your own bank" and "Not your keys, not your crypto" go in the right direction for Web3, by themselves they aren't enough to form the basis for Web3.

For Web3 to be fully realized, each of us needs to be our own network, or at least connect with enough people to form a unique network each time we make a payment or transaction. In this sense, we would be like the human equivalents of RSA keys used by participants authorized to access market data services or other remote networks. Even if the same set of people connect to form a network, it would be different just due to timing.

The only problem I have is satellite access, and that's only because that seems like the weak link due to who controls the satellite. Tesla cars (and the fabled Tesla phone) rely on Starlink, and it's been proven that Tesla cars can be hacked. What's to stop hackers from taking control of the satellite (or simply taking it out)? Either way, the Tesla cars become expensive bricks. How can the satellite situation be overcome?

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