Can Hive Connect To Monero?

in #hive-1679222 years ago

dandelionmonero.png

On a technical level, Monero is extremely impressive.
  • The sender is hidden.
  • The receiver is hidden.
  • The amount is hidden.
  • The node used to transfer money is masked.
  • Addresses do not appear on-chain.
  • The mining algorithm (cryptonight) is somehow still ASIC resistant.

I've actually always wanted to try mining Monero for real with an actual legitimate rig, but every time I try to research it I come up a bit confused. There seems to be a lot of drama in 2019 with a fork that created a 4-way hardfork split because of this exact issue. Another article claims that 85% of Monero hashrate is ASIC even though that's exactly what they are trying to avoid. I guess I'll have to look into it more before I attempt mining.

At the end of the day it is very hard to create a system that is resistant to ASIC machines because ASIC literally stands for application specific integrated circuit. No matter what algo Monero chooses, logic would dictate that hardware designers would be able to build around the rules to create a more efficient miner, and in my opinion that's fine.

Theory vs Practice

The theory behind ASIC resistance is that it makes the network more decentralized, but as @theycallmedan has already pointed out, solo-mining is irrelevant and all that matters are the massive mining pools that are the actual entities that control POW blockchain security.

If I start mining Monero, it doesn't matter if I use an ASIC machine or a PC. My hashrate is irrelevant, and I will delegate all my power to a mining pool like Nanopool. In doing so we see that POW is just DPOS with extra steps and extra unnecessary layer 0 governance structure.

moneroprivacycryptonight.png

But that is mostly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Privacy is the basis of fungibility, currency, and freedom itself. When compared to other networks, Hive is less private than even something like Bitcoin that is already heavily tracked by Chainalysis. That's because we use readable addresses on Hive and those addresses have an associated reputation within the network, which makes it even more unlikely that a single person would use more than one account in many circumstances. This prompts the obvious question: shouldn't we be reaching out and connecting to other privacy coins to make our own network more private?

Being able to move in and out of a privacy network would be a pretty huge gain for any non-privacy-centered network. More privacy better. This is especially true in the face of centralized exchanges constantly delisting privacy coins due to regulation concerns. That means that privacy coins actually work and regulators are truly baffled by them. We need to be making more connections with this technology to bolster our own relevance. Everybody does.

I've heard rumors that ThorChain is already on it.

There is a project in the works that apparently is a fork of Monero that may be able to connect to ThorChain itself, which would be huge for everyone because ThorChain itself is a decentralized exchange connected to dozens of networks. The ability to move value into a privacy network and move it anywhere without being tracked would be a godsend, even if the establishment would try to spin the same tired narrative that only criminals would want such a thing. Privacy is a basic human right. This has been proven dozens of times over the course of history. The people opposed to privacy are propagandists, imperialists, and tyrants.

rulesregulations.jpg

Rules for thee not for me, peasants!

I've already tried to run the game theory on how difficult it would be to run a cash-for-crypto operation on something like Venmo anonymously. It may or may not be viable depending on certain technical issues like verifying transactions between Venmo users. However, it was an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.

Could we apply this same logic to a Monero connection? Can Hive use its escrow smart contracts to facilitate a connection to privacy coins? I don't see why not.

The biggest problem I can think of off the top of my head is that the escrow service that holds the Hive in limbo would need to be able to confirm that a Monero trade did or did not occur. Is that even possible on a chain that masks addresses? It looks like it might be.

How to make a view-only wallet

A view-only wallet is a special type of wallet that can only see incoming transactions. Since it doesn't hold your mnemonic seed and private spend key, it can't sign transactions and it can't see outgoing transactions. This makes them particularly interesting for

  • Validate incoming transactions to cold wallets or hardware wallets
  • Monitor incoming donations to a fundraising campaign
  • Developers writing libraries to validate payments

Apparently Monero users get a special private key just for viewing funds in a public wallet. An escrow service on Hive might demand this key be shared (by the receiver) in the event of a trade being contested. If the receiver refused to share their key it would be assumed they got the money and the trade would go through, unlocking the Hive to the sending account and breaking the stalemate.

So everything would still be private to the outside world but the information would be shared with the escrow service (only in the event of a problem). If this outcome was not sufficient to the receiving party they could simply move the money one more time to another wallet to fully obfuscate the trade. That's the magic of privacy coins. Every transfer is very difficult to link with the previous transfer.

Another big problem is value capture

Who would build such a thing on Hive? What do the developers get for building it? Monetization can be a very big problem in a decentralized world where it can be very hard to capture value to justify building the thing in the first place. Perhaps it would make for a good project funded by the DHF. Say what you want about the DHF, but other networks don't even have the option. Hive is lightyears ahead of the "competition".

Conclusion

Privacy coins work. The IRS admits it. The Secret Service admits it (and their primary job is to stop people from counterfeiting USD). The FBI and the NSA admit it. They admit it with their actions and they admit it with their words (not overtly). Even more importantly, they all admit that privacy, fungibility, and currency are all fundamentally linked. A cryptosphere without privacy coins is a cryptosphere without currency. It's clear that Hive will need to link up with at least one in the future if we want to be taken seriously.

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Monero has several coins available in their wallets, I'd think hive would be easy to add on.
I've asked somebody that should know, but no answer yet.

Connecting Hive and Monero is an interesting idea. There are some DEX and atomic swap efforts you could tie into. And don't forget that @blocktrades supports Monero.

There's a lot of misinformation about Monero around. Did you find these articles by googling? The r/Monero and r/MoneroMining subreddits are better sources.

The ASIC-supporting forks went nowhere, and currently, the RandomX algo is designed so that the best ASIC would be a CPU.

I thought that might be the case but I haven't looked into it further.
Thanks for the tip.

privacy used to be all the rage years back, wonder what happened that people abandoned the trend

what is the best currency or coin, can you give me information, and can I write, in this community, I am from Indonesia?

What is the best fruit?
Just an opinion of the person telling you.

You can write here.
You can make money here (it's not easy).

My favorite coins right now are Bitcoin and Hive, hands down.

Thank you for giving me permission to write, and I ask permission to use your name and every time I write here? I also really want to have lots of hives, and bitcoins. because I want to be successful by writing,,,, and what posts can I share here, because Indonesia only follows hobbies and rules...but can I write macro photography here. because the remote country of Aceh. which is far from the beauty is not easy for me to get the beauty, and need a lot of money to get there, get some sharp photos, scenery and natural beauty?

You don't need anyone's permission.
Kind of the idea I feel like.
But also you've been on Hive for a year and a half.
You messing with me?

Yes sir @edicted, I've always tried, and haven't had success yet, moreover I need a lot of encouragement from this life, right? in that case sometimes I get a little frustrated with what I have been through, without any results it always passes bitterly, for that I am looking for inspiration and strong encouragement to be able to get it well, and wisely, and can take good care of it?

If I start mining Monero, it doesn't matter if I use an ASIC machine or a PC. My hashrate is irrelevant, and I will delegate all my power to a mining pool like Nanopool. In doing so we see that POW is just DPOS with extra steps and extra unnecessary layer 0 governance structure.

What are mining rigs if not capital? To take over a PoW network through hashing power requires a monetary investment in computing power. You could just as well leave out the pointless computations altogether.

The separation of security and governance from the stakeholders is a significant one.
On networks where stake and governance are intertwined, attackers can buy stake and attack the network risk-free up to a certain point. However with something like POW mining, the profits are razor thin. Trying to attack the network usually fails, AND it costs a shit ton of money. Even in the event of success they've probably still lost money. On a proof of stake network we've already seen that a hostile takeover requires forking out attacking stake, which is bad policy and seen as unacceptable to a network like BTC.

Again, the ability to turn energy into money while also securing the network isn't "pointless computation".
It's magic.
It's an extremely important tool moving forward.
And it creates unhackable random numbers that no one is even using yet.

Monero and THORChain are the key to everything changing.

Make it happen internet geeks!


PS. I'm interested in your thoughts on P2P pools.

Remember when the MineXMR pool pushed above 47% and the potential for a 51% attack on Monero was real?

Well that pool has now been completely shut down, with P2P pools taking a slightly bigger share.

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privacy coins are tricky because if something goes wrong it might not even get noticed
the whole p2p solution seems great but i havent researched it

Haven XHV is one of the next coins being added to ThorChain. AVAX should be running next week and then either Haven or BSC will be the next chain. DASH is also high on the list, which is also a privacy coin. Once Haven is integrated, Monero will be easy to implement on ThorChain as the heavy lifting will already be done with Haven.

There were a lot of nodes hesitant to allow privacy coins on ThorChain due to them being enablers and in regulators eyes arrestable. But, it seems that storm has passed and privacy will be coming to ThorChain soon-ish... still needs nodes to vote in favor of enabling the pool... could be more privacy drama yet.

Interestingly enough, there is a fork of ThorChain (maya protocol) that has all of their nodes anonymous. If privacy doesn't happen on ThorChain, it will happen on Maya.

Could we apply this same logic to a Monero connection? Can Hive use its escrow smart contracts to facilitate a connection to privacy coins? I don't see why not.

The biggest problem I can think of off the top of my head is that the escrow service that holds the Hive in limbo would need to be able to confirm that a Monero trade did or did not occur. Is that even possible on a chain that masks addresses? It looks like it might be.

Very Interesting thoughts and privacy is on the top of my mind with the current state of affairs, if you think or do something unpopular you could be punished and persecuted by a political party,

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I think privacy is the ultimate "killer app" for crytpo. And I hate the concept of a killer app.

I know that it is not a direct link, but we know Khal plans to move into RUNE at some point (hopefully after I can get a bag -- working on it). If Thorchain does include Monero eventually (I think it is a modest chance they will unless they get cold feet), having a HIVE-RUNE pair of some type will not be the same as direct but the next best thing. One hop away so to speak.

Besides blocktrades (once again not direct) I believe Privex takes Monero for sales (not exchange I don't think).

Would be nice if some on Hive exchange would include it but I am not sure anyone wants the heat :-)

Probably many people with low level design skills could design an ASIC to mine it. Would need 7 figure or more to run a decent batch at a fab. Then you would have to sell them not to go broke when really the way to play it would be to keep the chips all for yourself and mine Monero :-)

I think that is why they say ASIC "resistant". It can be done, they just make it not worthwhile. Ha! But you probably knew all of that before I mansplained it :-)

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