Reasons to Farm pHBD/USDC instead of native HBD.

in #hive-1679223 years ago


farmjumbo.jpg

In a previous post I made a grave math error that I never corrected so I figure I better come clean now. I said that the lowest a Polycub pHBD/USDC farm could go in yield was 20%, but in reality it is really 10% because only half of the LP is holding pHBD. In fact there will need to be a buffer account that contains liquid HBD for cashouts so the lowest it could go is more like 9% (assuming 10% was liquid and 90% was locked farming the 20%.

So the Polycub network will have to allocate yield to this pool to make it more desirable, this was always the plan, so no big deal. However the $5M target for total liquidity in this pool seems... very ambitious given this information. If Polycub itself only has a $1.5M market cap (most of that locked away in xPolycub and not even liquid) then how they they support such a pool?

I'm writing this post to say that it might not even matter.

You'd think if the pHBD/USDC LP had lower than 20% yield then no one would put more money into it (lowering yield even more). But this is incorrect. There are actually quite a few reasons why we would want to put money into a pHBD/USDC LP instead of native HBD on Hive even with lower yields.

1. pHBD/USDC is liquid.

Users that carry an HBD balance within the savings accounts get a guaranteed 20% (as long as witnesses signal 20%), but that money is locked for 3 days. Most of us have been around the block enough times to know that 3 days can become an eternity during a flash-crash. Sometimes we need that money within the next hour, and getting it 3 days later is totally pointless so might as well not even bother. In pHBD/USDC, both sides are fully liquid, and even if the buffer account (unwrapping bot) becomes illiquid we can still dump the pHBD for USDC immediately and exit within minutes.

2. USDC is more stable than HBD.

This is the main reason to create the LP in the first place. The goal is to stabilize HBD by allocating massively liquidity to an AMM. What better pairing than a pair to another stable coin that has billions of dollars of liquidity floating around a dozen other networks and exchange?

Again, enough of us have been around the block enough times to realize that when Hive flash crashes and we want to buy more, HBD also flash crashes at the same time and we get hosed. Not only it is a good idea to support this LP simple because it adds a ton of value to Hive (altruism) but also it's just simple a good idea because USDC isn't going to crash to 80 or 90 cents like HBD does all the time (not so much anymore, but still).

3. It becomes very easy to arbitrage the market.

If HBD spikes to $1.10, you don't have to wait 3.5 days for a Hive conversion and risk slippage cost from the price of Hive moving during that time. This is a huge issue during bull markets.

In a bull market Hive is going up. Sometimes the reason Hive is going up is because Hive is being converted into HBD because HBD has high demand. The problem with this is that it's not worth converting Hive into HBD until the price of HBD has spiked into the $1.10-$1.25 range. The more Hive is spiking up, the riskier it becomes to wait 3.5 days to make the conversion. There are many mechanics in play that cause HBD and Hive price to be positively correlated, which is exactly what we don't want. We want them to be negatively correlated (when Hive goes up HBD goes down and vice versa). This is much easier said than done in practice.

However, a pHBD/USDC pool makes the process of arbitrage much much much easier. Again, this all comes down to the money being liquid immediately and not locked for 3 days. If HBD spikes to $1.05, anyone will be able to dump HBD onto the market immediately. Assuming a lot of liquidity in the LP itself, this implies that users will remove LP tokens and sell the HBD side for USDC when it is overpriced, making HBD much much more stable in the long term.

The same is true if HBD breaks to the downside. In this case there are two options: dumping USDC for HBD and bring the price back up to $1, or if the price keeps dipping transfer the value to the main chain and convert it for Hive. Again, having multiple ways to stabilize HBD is going to make it a much better asset. This is why I think we need to implement CDP smart contracts and allow it to be minted out of thin air using Hive collateral.

On that note it would be possible for something like Polycub to do just that. Because Polycub controls pHBD they could create a system that allowed for xpolycub to be staked in a contract and pHBD to be minted from it. Considering Polycub is already making an adjacent technology that will allow loans from the vault it may be very easy to adapt the tech that's already being made to suit this purpose (the biggest problem is liquidating collateral and avoiding bad debt, which will already be solved from Vault POL loans).

Counterparty risk

The main reason to not swap HBD to pHBD is that we have to trust the Leofinance team and the Polycub code. Largely this is a centralized solution and the HBD used to mint pHBD will be sitting in an account on Hive under the control of the LEOfinance team. Luckily because savings accounts are timelocked for 3 days it would actually be very difficult to steal money from the cold-wallet, and all we have to worry about is the hot-wallet that allows users to unwrap pHBD into HBD.

Conclusion

When we actually theory-craft it out, there are a surprising amount of reasons to support an off-chain pegged token on the Polygon network. Stability, instant gratification, fluidity, and liquidity are all super important. This LP will still get support even if it has lower yields than native HBD, and for good reason. All of these things are synergizing together. Good times are coming. Tada moon.

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Saw this tweet. The answer is Khal will be adding the liquidity 250k from the HBD side

1514637691337551882?s=21&t=aIDX4Y9dPM_jad7nYBlCNA twitter metadata:a2hhbGthenx8aHR0cHM6Ly90d2l0dGVyLmNvbS9raGFsa2F6L3N0YXR1cy8xNTE0NjM3NjkxMzM3NTUxODgyP3M9MjEmdD1hSURYNFk5ZFBNX2phZDduWUJsQ05BfA== ~~~

This game is on polygon network, but how it relates to hive? Thx

WOW LEO FINANCE IS AWESOME

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I like it for one reason It put forward HBD and the blockchain will benefit for this.
Leo, Hive, Polycub, everything about the community will benefit.
The liquid part is tempting.
Let me gather my fund and be there.

!BEER

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I think it depends but for me, I tend to prefer the 3.5 day period over 90 days of harvest penalty. It does add the option for people who want to do arbitrage and the liquidity would be great for the platform.

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Those are two completely separate things.
The 3.5 days applies to all money while the 90 days only applies to yield.

Say you had $12000 in the LP at 20%,
You farm it for a month, so you're owed 20% of $1000, which is $200...
You pull out the $12000 and buy the dip somewhere else.
Are you really gonna pull out the $100 early or just wait 60-90 days for the $200?

Well yes, that is true to an extent and I agree that you can redeploy the funds fast. However, I think one of the biggest benefits is the compound interest part of an investment and in PolyCUB, you will have to wait 90 days for this to start. I think the savings account is 30 days.

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Yeah, you pointed that out yesterday during our discussion. 90days is quite steep. I think there should be an option. I am guessing the APR will be paid in polycub (i stand to be corrected). If that is the case I don't see the need for the 90days lock considering the printing rate of polycub has reduced.

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I think that is by design and it feeds into the xPolyCUB system.

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20%+ with cut = very good.

Without 50% cut i don't think 5 million will come in that pool. Nobody waits 90 days.

Very good summary of my own thoughts but put in a way better format.

Thank you @edicted and see you in the pHBD Pool ;).

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I find the concept of removing it immediately because of the background that PolyCUB wants to achieve very interesting. It is true that when you have an emergency you can't wait 3 days, it happened to me and it is desperate.

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Oooo, Moon!!! Aroooo :)

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I believe stabilizing the price of HBD on PolyCUB will be one of the most beneficial sides of HBD / USDC pool. In addition, I think the team will adjust the rewards for the pool to be above %20 to make it worthy. Besides, arbitrage has never been that easy for Hivers to keep HBD stable as it should be ✌

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Good points. I was only hoping that the APR would be greater than the 20% but you explained well that even if that's not the case it can still be better to be in the pool rather than savings.

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Added a couple of bucks, works great and the APR is lit.

Is there risk involved in using this FARM?

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Now this kinda clears something. But will be reading it again tomorrow. The dilemma is real for a small cub like me hehe.

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In terms of counter-party risk, what would a worst case scenario look like?

For pHBD and then compared to HBD in savings.

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Interesting stuff. I am definitely going to put some money into this when it launches. I just need to figure out how much I am going to be able to scrape together.

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Yeah, I think the security will be fine and the benefits will be great, but I want to point out my favorite part of your post!

image.png

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Nice said @edicted the savings aspect which will last to about 3days before you are able to get your money out from it is actually good and it makes one rest assured no one could steal from you behind your back..I just hope the phbd into hbd works I believe it will be a good one tho.

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As for me too, I think the 3 days pending withdrawal is too long and polycub solves that issue. I will be putting some money in the pool to take advantage of the arbitrage.

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The main reason to not swap HBD to pHBD is that we have to trust the Leofinance team and the Polycub code.

I trust them more than I trust my Hive wallet on my Android phone.

Interesting read and nice points. It all looks very attractive getting on when comparing the rewards with that of just savings. Don't see why anybody would want to miss out on this. Believe we will be seeing more investors on that pool.Highlyy anticipating it's launch so as to move in some HBD

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There are many mechanics in play that cause HBD and Hive price to be positively correlated, which is exactly what we don't want. We want them to be negatively correlated (when Hive goes up HBD goes down and vice versa). This is much easier said than done in practice.

Funny how markets have a mind of their own and seem to do their own thing.

The best laid plans as they say.

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Good explanation.

Hi @edicted

Thank you for three other good reasons to invest in Polycub HBD-USDC Pool:

First, pHBD/USDC is liquid.
HBD within the savings accounts is locked for 3 days.
In pHBD/USDC, both sides are fully liquid, we can sell our LP tokens for the pHBD for USDC immediately and get our tokens in minutes.
Second, USDC is more stable than HBD.So a really good way to stabilize HBD is by pairing it to a stable coin that has billions of dollars of liquidity on a dozen other networks and exchange.
Third, It becomes very easy to arbitrage the market.

I wrote an article(s) and when I read other peoples articles I see things I didn’t see.

@shortsegments

#edicted-article
source

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I definitely think that a pool like this will be much more attractive to outside investors than just holding HBD on HIVE. First of all, it's on Polygon so, as you've said in the past, the amount of exposure is exponential compared to the amount of people on HIVE. And even with lower yields, it's still going to be a stablecoin paired with a stablecoin paying most likely over 10%.

Plus, as more people enter the PolyCUB ecosystem, I could see yields climbing as PolyCUB becomes more and more attractive with it's bonding, collateralization, and the PoL.

No matter how you slice it, it seems like this could be a very good thing for all involved: LEO, CUB, PolyCUB, and HIVE. They should all benefit from this exposure.

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It is a nice initiative but I guess the elephant in the room would be the 5m liquidity. How is the leofinance team going to pull that off? Well if they do then that should been in external investment as you said which is good for the hive and leofinance ecosystem

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I don't quite follow your reasoning on several points but you might know better ... For example: high HBD APR (thus high demand) is quite likely to depress the price of Hive because those most likely to want HBD are people with Hive, rather than people with Poly or other coins. So there's likely to be "Hive dumping" in exchange for HBD. Also, when there are flash crashes a "normal investor" (one that trades by hand) is best advised to stay put and not try to trade the momentum. "Sit on your hands" is what wise investors do most of the time since the time of Warren Buffett. Prices tend to revert to the mean and you can't be faster than the trading algorithms ...

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So there's likely to be "Hive dumping" in exchange for HBD.

Sorry? What are they going to be dumping Hive for? HBD?
So the Hive/BTC pair will somehow lose value?
The Hive/USDT pair will somehow lose value?
Even though there are no valid HBD/BTC or HBD/USDT pairs to choose from?

The only way to get a significant amount of HBD is to DESTROY hive and convert to HBD.
We already say how the price goes up when these conversions were implemented in the first place.
Hive has already gone 10x since that time.

There is a HBD / BTC pair on Bittrex. Also there's the internal market where one can sell Hive in order to acquire HBD. But I sure wish you're right