My thoughts about integrating privacy chains into THORChain

in #hive-1679222 years ago

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"I’m not anti government, I’m pro freedom.” Said someone somewhere. Isn’t it interesting how the words Government and Freedom seem to find themselves on opposite sides of a spectrum these days?

The thing that one seems to exist for is the thing the other exists to take away. There’s certainly no way that this was how it was all meant to be.

We saw the Dutch government arrest a Tornado Cash protocol developer during the course of the week in Amsterdam, for simply writing code, most baffling thing is that the law makers are not allowed to be grounded in the knowledge of crypto, by design, so they are goofing, horribly…. It’s a shit show.

Regulators have shown that they’re ready to play in the mud, sadly for them, they will be playing alone, because what they’re presently doing is exposing the potential attack vectors in crypto, the centralized stable coins and entities claiming to be decentralized and aren’t, we’ve seen many of them involved with censoring wallets and we will move away from them.

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The question had always been about the tools to ensure we have a shot at financial freedom and self sovereignty, people should be free to choose privacy, no one should be sanctioned for writing code to build a privacy centric protocol or any protocol, code is speech, speech is free. The sanctioning of Tornado Cash and the arresting of the Tornado Cash developer shows how low and rash regulators are willing to go.

The question remains the same, automatically, the importance of truly decentralized protocols in a decentralized ecosystem have become more evident than ever, a truly decentralized ecosystem needs truly decentralized money, the next most important thing is a truly decentralized means of exchanging native assets(money) across chains without giving up custody to centralized entities.

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THORChainhas an headstart here and being the only one capable of providing a truly decentralized exchange protocol puts it on the radar of regulators. If they could arrest Tornado Cash’s developer and get away with it unchallenged, it means we are in a very horrible state as a society and it could happen to anyone.

How long would it take them to sanction THORChain’s devs and start locking people up for reasons like inability to enforce KYC? Just because the devs are in the U.S and that is why the best case scenario for the success of a decentralized economy will rest upon the shoulders of the anonymous society.

Anon Devs, anon node operators with out of reach infrastructure running full open source protocols that are truly decentralized with nodes distributed all over the world, protocols that are bereft of jurisdictional censorship. This is the way Maya protocolhas chosen to follow and as the only present fork of THORChain makes it a beast in its league. Hear me out.

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Recent conversations on Twitter among the core THORChain community has been whether or not Monero which is a privacy centric protocol and other privacy protocols should be implemented into THORChain or not. Recent regulatory actions have shown us that there’s heavy scrutiny of privacy centric protocols.

Integrating a privacy protocol into THORChain automatically grants everyone that uses THORChain privacy which in turn puts the protocol on the radar of regulators. THORChain devs are known irl, personally, it sounds like too much of a risk to take. This is where Maya protocol comes in, as the perfect privacy layer fork of THORChain.

Maya will be the dark side of THORChain’s dex protocol, the rascal hybrid that implements operations that THORChain is too doxxed to implement. But this is just my opinion. Many of the community are of opinion that THORChain isn’t ready to take on privacy coins, while others claim there’s never a right time. Both have valid arguments.

The discussion will be open to a live session between the community on discord tomorrow but the final decision is with the nodes operators.
https://discord.gg/bmzRzjc9?event=1011705641418633368
This will be a pivotal upgrade for THORChain if implemented as it changes everything and takes on a far more greater challenge than being just a L1 dex protocol.

Kindly share your thoughts. Should THORChain take on privacy chains?

To read more about Maya protocol click this

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Excellent post, well written. And I fully agree with you. =)
!hivebits

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Thank you amigos


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The cool think is Leofinance is going to integrate into ThorChain. That means we will have access.

So I think it is a good move for ThorChain. Keep building.

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Thorswap just launched its own aggregator. Making it possible to trade hundreds of Erc20 tokens against other L1 tokens. It’s massive. Leofinance’s integration will be super massive for Leofinance and Hive.

This is a good news tho, so I think we should anticipate a good one

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Well, time will tell

Yeah tho

I'm very eager to learn of the progress of this Maya fork of THORChain. The truly-decentralized control of the protocol is what is most interesting to me, because it addresses the issue of publicly-known people being easy targets for the feds.

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I’m excitedly following the project as well, also, the twist in its tokenomic design compared to Thorchain gives me something to look forward to.

were there community spaces online for Maya that you frequent? I'm curious to learn more, since the Tornado Cash debacle has incited panic for privacy reasons

It's great to see that these things are discussed publicly within a community.

The doxxed devs are the main reason why I still don't want to get into ThorChain. It is probably the best idea in crypto right now but the fact that governments could twist one wrist and make a change in a seemingly decentralized protocol is not for me.

I'll stand on the sidelines and wait this one out for now.

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This is definitely a concern for all privacy-focused products. Without software back-doors, the US government cannot easily get in (nor could any other world power). Publicly-known people are a systemic risk to the safety and security of the protocols that they work on. Were they to give up all control and push power to the DAO (or a similar concept), then there wouldn't be as easily-visible an attack vector as there is now.

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I think privacy on ThorChain is inevitable. I am fairly certain that Haven will be voted the next one up and there are certain node operators and dev's that just have cold feet.

This is the next chapter for crypto, which ThorChain will be the center of (kind of like how binance and coinbase... is the center of crypto now...). The chain is decentralized. The devs can be arrested and the show will go on. The node operators need to be ready for scrutiny... ready for the next battle, which is autonomy over finance. Pretty epic.

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I think privacy on ThorChain is inevitable.

Certainly! Most node operators are voting yes, few aren’t. But community members are the ones with the cold feet most.

Thanks for your fine comment.

It is natural for the cold feet... this is going to be a bumpy road. Once those in regulatory roles see the next hurdle they will be grabbing at whatever straw there is. Could get messy... the right side will emerge victorious.

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Yes they should. And so should many, many others. Therein lies the problem.

Governments are gonna pick off these privacy chains one by one. There needs to be a rise of so many that they are swamped. Alas I am afraid that won't happen... yet. Many devs are gonna go down before the governments give up, but it will happen eventually. Hopefully in my lifetime :-)

One of the big problems is the gov basically controls the internet. That is really the weak link in all of this. Standing up independent (thus technically illegal) network infrastructure will also have to happen. I think some wild west nations may slowly arise that look the other way on some of these things. Who knows?

Thorchain is very complex. Both the monetary and technical barriers to entry are very high. That needs to improve.

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Yes they should. And so should many, many others. Therein lies the problem.

I agree, a truly decentralized ecosystem should be like a hydra, you cut one head off it grows another.

But what about the rule of law? These sanctions we are preparing for are outright wrong, how are these policies going to be challenged to court or how long are we going to keep trying to out think, out act, out run regulators for doing nothing?

I’m not sure the complexity can get any easier, the knowledge just needs to spread more widely. I appreciate your thoughtful comment.

pRUNE & bRUNE will only help expand the reach of THORChain into the Hive ecosystem, and further connections with ERC20 tokens. We need Cosmos IBC & SNIP-20 encryption standards from Secret Network, then it'll be pretty hard for anyone to follow much

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Rule of Law died long ago. Julian Assange was kidnapped, held against his will in a British prison, and has been tortured at the behest of the US-UK Global Military Industrial-Complex. Rule of Law doesn't exist, it's just a figment of people's imagination. Any unequal application of said "Rule of Law" invalidates its very existence. Rules for thee and not for me, is neither "democratic" nor a "Republic" system of governance.

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Wow. Epic! I thought Rule of law was only dead in Nigeria.

Rule of Law died a very long time ago. There has always been a class divide in the US, it was designed that way. If the US were truly the land of freedom for the individual, why would the government ever agree to that? I say government as a monolithic entity because they are not human, they're communist Politburos that need to be demolished permanently. and we do so, using tools like Hive and Lightning Network

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Hate to break it to you bruv, but none of these shitcoins can just slap on privacy, anything EVM/turing complete is doxing technology. You can add heuristic-breaking tools like mixers on it but you're creating so much meta data with these chains you're constantly creating ways to lead back to your identity, especially because none of these things are self-contained systems.

And even if by some miracle you could do it, because these chains house massive data no ones running a node, so theres F-all decentralisation, you can just go after A the exchanges running nodes and dry up the liquidity or B the infrastructure like most of these shitcoins are running on AWS, Azure and Google Cloud, you think an OFAC is going to get them not to comply?

When you go full privacy with something like monero what you add is the risk that you now cannot confirm the supply of the token, along with the fact that the consensus protocol changes constantly it's pretty easy for an inflation bug or inflation diversion to certain accounts to happen.

It's a larp

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B the infrastructure like most of these shitcoins are running on AWS, Azure and Google Cloud, you think an OFAC is going to get them not to comply?

Only the ones in US have to comply, it will be illegal for the U.S sanction to be enacted in EU as an example.

When you go full privacy with something like monero what you add is the risk that you now cannot confirm the supply of the token, along with the fact that the consensus protocol changes constantly it's pretty easy for an inflation bug or inflation diversion to certain accounts to happen.

No. It certainly doesn’t work like that.

The debate might interest you.

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I'm sorry if you weren't aware, but the US OFAC can sanction whomever it wants. There is not a single country on earth that is safe from the overreach of the US government. IF some developer in the EU creates something that is then put on the OFAC's Designated List, there is nothing that individual can do except flee the EU for a country that does not have an extradition treaty with the US - otherwise they're completely vulnerable and their physical sovereignty is at risk

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