Hive Backed Dollar: Secondary Innovations

in #hive-1679222 years ago

For the last year, Hive's own stablecoin received a great deal of attention. This started with the HBD Stabilizer which has tightened the range the token traded in while also adding over 1 million HIVE to the Decentralized Hive Fund (DHF).

At the same time, interest was added to any HBD that was placed in savings. This is paying a strong 12% per year, a level set by the witnesses. We also have the increase in the haircut limit taking place in the next hard fork.

All of this is helping to move HBD, an algorithmic stablecoin, forward.

Over the past few months, we covered ideas such as the Hive Saving Bonds as well as developing an entire bond tree.

Today we will look at the secondary innovations that could come from having projects such as these in place.

Innovation happens at many layers. The great thing about an ecosystem like this is that once something is in place, other are free to build on top of it. Here is where we can see things explode.

The main focus of this article will be base layer. However, it is easy to conceptualize how many idea on the second level can come forth.

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Transaction Fees

One of the benefits of having increased activity, from a token standpoint, is due to the fact that, if people want to transact, Resource Credits are required. Here is how people can promote the idea that Hive is feeless. There are no transaction fees at the moment on Hive.

This is accomplished by having Hive powered up in one's account. IT is what provides the Resource Credits to operate. If an account has even 100 HP, that individual can engage with the blockchain almost endlessly.

Here is where we can change things up. Let us start by implementing transaction fees. Please note that this does not mean we do away with the Resource Credit system. As long as one has HP in the account, everything operates the same.

The question arises pertaining to those who do not have Hive Power. More importantly, what about those people who are not aware of it? Resource Credits are a complex system and difficult to explain. If we are going to attract outside people, especially using a feature such as the Hive Savings Bond, simplicity is key.

Implementing transactions fees at this level could be the solution. How would this look?

Someone comes to Hive looking to get involved in the fixed income market we are creating. The person is either going to have to swap/convert Hive to HBD or, if in HBD, transact to get it into savings. This requires Resource Credits.

Here is where the transaction fee enters. If the individual is lacking them, he or she can pay a 1 HBD ($1.00) fee. We could use some of the Hive in the DHF to provide the Resource Credits. This would all be driven on the back end. People who deal in financial matters are accustomed to paying fees. Naturally, if the person has the RCs, this step is not required.

It is basically to cater to people who are not really familiar with Hive and are not going to spend the time learning. They simply want to deposit their money to earn the return.

The HBD fee is sent to the DHF as a way to keep funding that.

Conversion Fees

Another idea is to implement a small fee when converting Hive-to-HBD or vice versa. Here we are addressing a few issues at the same time.

To start, we could enhance the security of network governance. Also, we are making it a bit more rewarding for people to hold Hive Power.

What does this look like? Each time someone uses the conversion mechanism, there is a fee of perhaps .25%-.5%. This is deducted from what is paid out on the conversion. Whatever comes through from this mechanism can be distributed to the holders of Hive Power, much in the same way as with the inflation. The accounts might now know it is happening.

This ends up as a way of securing the governance of the network. The idea is to get a steady flow of Hive being powered up. It happens automatically and will only increase if the conversion mechanism becomes more popular.

Here we can see how Diamond Paws are rewarded. More importantly, we have a flow of Hive going into accounts that are likely HODLers. This adds more stability to the network since HP translates to governance rights.

Just think about how much HP that is if we have to create 10 billion HBD over the next half decade. That is a lot of converting taking place.

Of course, for this to be desirable, the conversion mechanism will require some fine tuning. At present, there is the 3.5 day convert time on a portion of the transaction as a security feature. Hopefully, as we add security via different mechanisms, we see this drift away. Ultimately, the goal would be to have the conversion mechanism operate akin to a swapping feature. People will be able to seamlessly be able to go back and forth.

And each time this happens we will see a portion pushed into HP, furthering governance security. It is important to mention that the slippage in liquidity pools can often be 1%-3%.

Increasing The Appeal Of HBD

All of this is predicated upon increasing the appeal of HBD, not only to people on Hive but those outside it. Concentrating upon the fixed income market is a fantastic way to do this. With Hive, we can implement a great deal at the base layer, which provides enhanced security as compared to much of what is out there.

It all ties to the value of Hive in total. The conversion mechanism simply moves the value around to where it is needed. If HIVE is more attractive at the moment, that is where the focus will be. However, if market forces change, with HBD becoming the preferred, the system can adjust for that.

Through this, we can take secondary steps that enhance the entire ecosystem. Here we have a couple ideas which can keep driving value to the core levels. A steady flow of revenue to both the DHF and HP HODLers enables further expansion while providing a bit more incentive to power up.

As always, the numbers and percentages are just suggestions to give examples. However, it is important to convey some of these ideas and starting the conversation.

What are your thoughts? Do you see this as an effective way to drive value to the Hive ecosystem especially if HBD becomes an appealing token for people to hold or utilize?


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Very well, @taskmaster4450 you've got a nice idea. The point of using the hbd fee instead of RC will even reduce the stuffs to learn per time instead of the usual choking learnings. 🤣

We also have the increase in the haircut limit taking place in the next hard fork.

Can you elucidate on this, pls?

The haircut is the level of HBD mc as a percentage of the marketcap of Hive. If that reaches 10%, HBD ceases to be created until the ratio gets back in alignment.

This is being moved to 30% I believe in the next fork.

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Oh, I see that now..its a way of keeping things in check!

I understand the logic behind the explanation but I am not a supporter. I have seen this many times. First it is a small fee to help support the system but over time it becomes an abuse that drives many users out. The clearest example is Ether.

This is a different situation. That is based upon chain activity and is based upon the miners. Here we are coding a fee to use the DHF RCs.

One is still free to buy Hive and power it up. However, most are not going to even consider such a thing if they are just looking for a return on their investment.

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Keep pushing HBD task!

Until the cows come home or they kick me off the platform.

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Making hive more attractive works more . If more people do that, it will increase the value of hive

What a great post, I really learnt a lot from this topic, it was so awesome and nice.

transaction fees seem to me to work well, I look forward to seeing how they can implement this.

It makes so much sense… it would be a good solution going forward.

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adding over 1 million HIVE to the Decentralized Hive Fund (DHF).

It's over 1 million dollars, but that's a LOT more than 1 million HIVE because for most of that time HIVE was well under a dollar, closer to 10 cents at one point.

I've also seen an estimate of $1.5 million. Not really sure what is the right number.

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Using 1 hbd fee is smart. That's is a great idea, using the DHF to provide the rc. so by charging them the $1.00 they are getting a great service. And these fees soon add up. The whole ecosystem really benefits !

Yes and new people who are just interested in using the depositing money into the fixed income services do not have to learn about RCs and all the other stuff. They simply deposit the money, paying a fee to the DHF, and go about their business.

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For sure this is a great idea. Reading it I think that what would be amazing is to have an HBD or even HIVE pool on ThorChain, but not sure how would that start. If it would, for sure those would become oceans of liquidity for Hive users.

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I would say that will be done at some point by the Leofinance team. They are taking things to all chains and they already stated they are going to have both a HBD and HIVE LP on Polygon. It just makes sense for them to keep spreading it out.

The challenge is that does not create any more HBD unlike on chain deposits. Yet, there is room for it all. That is the key. Get it started and then build from there, on all levels.

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A wonderful and useful post again. I wonder what the yield of HIVE Saving Bonds will be.

We will have to see if they roll out. That would be up to the witnesses to decide. It would have to be a higher rate than Hive savings since it is non-liquid.

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This is a great one thanks for sharing.. the transaction fee is actually a fair one and not a choking fee

Yeah no need to try and maximize the amount on each transaction. Look to have minimal fees but generate lots of transactions.

If Hive does become a destination for fixed income, having something like this is vital along with being profitable for the DHF.

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Yeah no need for that. Well you said the correct things but time will tell about the fixed income

This is a great idea, we keep having a fee-less blockchain but for those who dont want to learn or just want to have HBD in saving can pay some fee and that fee is going to help the blockchain. Just awesome.

Simplifying the processes will be more attractive for new users and investors. Unfortunately not all developers think along simple lines and this needs to change.

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That HBD fee is actually a great idea. It helps simplify things for newcomers while not hindering those who are long-term investors and have staked Hive on their wallets.

With time, maybe those who are paying fees may want to learn more about the system and become long-term investors as well.

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Simplicity is what it is. Most are use to that so why fight it. The RC system is too complicated to explain. Let those who are interesting in learning about Hive understand it in time. As for those just looking to get involved in the yield offered through HBD, let them pay a fee per transaction to the DHF to operate.

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An interesting aspect of the fee concept is that it creates a direct financial incentive to power up and use RCs. The latter can be presented/explained as a way to avoid fees which would otherwise need to be paid. Essentially a fee-free "tier".

As said earlier Resource Credits is a difficult to explain. Hence, a simple explanation of this will be much appreciated.

There's alot of activities to gain in Hive. The transaction fee in Hive is free, Even the conversion rate is cheap, that Means there's alot of good things to gain in Hive.

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@tipu curate

If the fees are based on a percentage, would the conversion still be instant or would it stay as the 3.5 days?

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That is up to the community to determine. Have to weight the benefits/risks. To operate in line with a trading platform, need to be instant. Have to determine the security aspect though.

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As for HBDs, I have recently started putting this coin in the savings section. Also in the coming months I will try to collect some of these coins and continue to put them in the savings section

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If HBD get it's own marketplace or some sort of the peer mechanism of exchange it has ability to beat the BUSD. In order to beat the popular stablecoins it needs the backing of that type. So we are going to see how that would go in near future. I have hopes that once we get enough outside buzz it would help adoption too.

The potential is there. It requires a lot though. Still a long way to go.

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Just reading this post an idea popped in my head: is the feeless nature of hive a problem? Especially from the standpoint of a new user. I think there should be an option of using hive or hbd to transaction. It should be easy to create an account and sent tokens to that account that allows you to transact. This is the norm in the crypto space. Going the extra mile of powering up and understanding resource credit is cumbersome. I think the witnesses should look into this aspect of the blockchain.

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I believe if transaction fees become an alternative to RCs, they should be for all type of transactions, including custom jsons and voting or posting. Not sure if it would be good or bad, apart from the work needed to make this happen, it would be great if some cons would be provided by someone who can think of them.

About conversion fees, for HIVE -> HBD there's already a 5% fee. I don't remember what happens with the fee.

An interesting angle that I'm trying to wrap my head around.

So they'd still need a Hive account to use HBD?

But they just wouldn't need any HP?


PS. Instead of bolding words in these posts, you should instead replace them with links to your older, related content.

You have soooo much good HBD content that we need to tell Google is important.

This is done by linking back to it.

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The whole resource credit issue gets solved permissionlessly with the technology that was already promised would be available 6 months ago:

RC Pools

Seriously we've been talking about this shit since 2018.
Have the devs ever explained why they can't get it done?
It doesn't even require a hardfork.
Totally backwards compatible with the old way of doing it.


Ultimately, the goal would be to have the conversion mechanism operate akin to a swapping feature. People will be able to seamlessly be able to go back and forth.

Like an AMM of Hive/HBD?

Even the keyword 'swap' is an AMM thing.

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The only way to allow HBD to be printed instantly is CDP smart contracts.
Something tells me we're going to have to wait a very long time for that.

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People looking to simply utilize some fixed income features arent likely to investigate the RC delegation either.

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Oh okay I just don't see why we need the DHF.
Isn't this a situation where anyone could charge $1 in exchange for RCs?

I'd go for the savings/bond accounts to have enough rc's to offer a token amount of transactions a month.
Seems that it would need a ui that makes that a one stop shop, though.
Enter user name, get owner key, send your whatever tokens to xxx and recieve xxx in hbd savings/bond account with x transactions per month.
See offer of benefits of full accounts.
As long as they get the owner key, they can upgrade later.

I'm not happy with how the hive to hbd conversion works, either.
I understand why a 5% fee is required, but don't like it much.

An amm would make sense, but it doesn't create more hbd, just swaps them.
We could use that, too.
With a .1%, or smaller, fee, it could even pay for itself by first reimbursing the coder that made it with his bounty and then feeding the hp holders once that bill is paid.

I'm going to be really disappointed if the bonds don't come with this hardfork.
We've had enough kneecappening, iyam.
Too much longer and folks will start calling for ending hbd entirely for being 'too confusing'.
Or, ending rewards on the base layer.
Smdh.

Regular accounts already offer a few free transactions per day worth of RCs even with no HP. Probably enough for a passive investor.

So, all we need is the ui that works as described?
Enter username desired, get owner key, input deposit, and viola, new hivizen?
I guess we would need some additional data, number of expected transactions per day, benefits of full accounts, etc,...

That's right

Any idea what that would take in dev time?
Do I need to make the proposal, or what?

Not very informed about Hive UI development so I can't comment.


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I think it would make a ton of sense to have transaction fees as an alternative to powering up. I don't think it would necessarily even be too hard to implement such change. Not all users want to power up.

The problem with HP and only it granting the privilege to use the chain is that under that system there is no clear sink causing demand for space on the blockchain to create a continuous demand for HIVE or HBD. The user base has to grow for there to be a force to even maintain the price of HIVE if pure speculation is ignored. Introducing transaction fees as an alternative to powering up adds to the utility of liquid HIVE or HBD.

Purchasing HP can be seen as a way to purchase temporally unlimited access to space on chain. There is no reason why access to said space could not be sold on a single use basis.

The problem with HP and only it granting the privilege to use the chain is that under that system there is no clear sink causing demand for space on the blockchain to create a continuous demand for HIVE or HBD.

That is true but it is where the applications come in. What is built on Hive is responsible for expanding its user base. Isnt that a business 101 basic? Grow your customers.

With all that is being worked on, I have a feeling that we will see this changing. There is a lot of focus upon things that will have appeal to people outside of Hive. It is just a matter of getting those things rolled out.

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Growing the user base makes perfect sense and should be priority #1. But I think there is utility in a mechanism that keeps up demand for HIVE and HBD even if the user base is shrinking. Such a mechanism helps stabilize both currencies.

it's hard to increase the apeal of HBD when it can drop to as low as $0,88 ( at the end of February), that's pretty far from the dollar even if you're talking about small amounts. For big players I imagine that is deal breaking. Sure it can bounce back but you might want to use HBD to reinvest precisely when the market is down, the problem is that coincides with HBD also being down

Stability and liquidity are tied together. Hard for the price of something to be stable when there isnt a great deal of liquidity. Hence the double-edged sword.

Of course, the conversion is always stable as we know what that will net out. But we do need to do more to get the price range tighter.

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tighter price and that savings APR would be a killer combo