Hive Savings Bonds: Showing Innovation Of The Hive Community

in #hive-1679223 years ago

Last week we posted about the idea of implementing another layer into the Hive Savings program to expand Hive's entry into the fixed income market. This was something we called Hive Savings Bond.

The idea is to use the time locked capabilities of Hive along with the interest payment for staking to create an attractive option for all users of cryptocurrency.

Our first idea is to offer a 1 year lock up for the Hive Backed Dollar (HBD) in return for a 25% APR. The rate, of course, would ultimately be decided by the Witnesses. However, whatever the rate, when one puts HBD, that is what is applicable for the next 12 months.

We are trying to get the ball rolling on the first expansion. From the post, a lot of great ideas sprung forth, which can be added/discussed in the future. There is no reason that a project like this, if successful, could not be expanded upon.

Let us look at a few of the comments that came back.

Those Who Are Excited About It

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Certainly this is the idea. We want to attract outside capital. Hive offers a capability that is not common in the cryptocurrency industry. Since HBD is a base layer token, all yields paid occur at that level. Hence there is reduced risk since no additional token is inserted into the equation.

hivesavingsbond.png

Hard to argue with this logic.

hivesavingsbond.png

Here is one who sees the potential: a 25% return for only a 1 year lock up. That is 4x time powerdown period of Hive Power (albeit not on a weekly basis). It might be an insane opportunity. Either way, it does hold a great deal of potential.

Some Other Ideas

The Hive community was good about putting together some other ideas. As stated, the goal is to insert Hive in the discussion for fixed income opportunities. We can expand this project in the future to be more encompassing.

hivesavingsbond.png

hivesavingsbond.png

We all would like to see HBD (and HIVE) on more exchanges. Could this be the motivation that is needed for some entities to pick it up? Hard to tell but it cannot hurt. If there is a called for HBD outside of Hive, it stands to reason that exchanges will step up to fill that need.

As for pairs, of course we want them to develop. This is all that can take place as a result of the introduction. Perhaps it motives some of the decentralized projects to add HBD as a pair.

hivesavingsbond.png

hivesavingsbond.png

A number of people jumped on the idea of shorter as well as longer term lock up periods. This would then present different options in terms of return.

Naturally, here is where we can see the concept expanded in the future. Different levels, ala a bond tree, can be implemented. If there are second layer solutions developed, the base level asset then can be collateralized to provide some liquidity. There might even be the option to create a liquid form of the HBD held in the account, tokenize it, and make it tradeable.

In other words, the potential additions in the future are wide.

The Hunt For Yield

This is a phrase many have heard. It became very pronounced when interest rates got to the point where they provided little return. Because of this, the fixed income market is very difficult.

What if Hive offered a powerful solution for this. Most of the investing world is not into setting their hair on fire and looking for the next 1000x. Instead, they want to take their money and put it into projects that offer a strong return.

Here is what Hive can offer with this:

25% APR, base-layer algorithmic driven stablecoin with no third party counter-risk.

Compare that to the rates paid by a local bank in a savings account.

This could simply be an entry point for Hive into this arena. Consider what the other stablecoin projects are paying. Most of them are lower than the 25% although they do have liquidity. Thus, in this instance, that is the trade-off. We also see the payouts in another token which adds a degree of risk and volatility not present in this equation.

Is this going to be the answer for everyone? Certainly not. However, as more people find their way into cryptocurrency, they are going to be seeking yields where risk is reduced as much as possible. This is how the majority of investors operate.

If Hive is offering a platform of options, this could be a desired destination for many. It will also expand the amount of HBD that is created, something that is vital to generate the commerce within the ecosystem using that token.

This Is How Powerful It Can Be

With the insane returns promoted in the world of Decentralized Finance and Cryptocurrency, it is easy to lose site of what is possible with the straight-forward, time-based returns. Here we are not threatened by rug pulls or projects disappearing. Hive is certain to keep producing blocks every 3 seconds, meaning people can always access the chain.

When we discuss the idea of creating wealth on Hive, here is a fantastic example put forth by @quinnertronics.

The idea is to put $1,000 in, per year, at 25% return. Do this for 20 years while compounding the money and this is what we get:

hivesavingsbond.png

This is how wealth is generated. If one followed this, he or she would have over $500K at the end of the 20 years. There is a problem, it is only compounding once per year. With the Hive Savings Bond, we can claim monthly, hence it compounds 12 times a year. The total with that scenario is over $700K.

Are you seeing the potential now?

One final example: In the United States, one is able to put $6,000 in an Individual Retirement Account per year ($7,000 if over the age of 50). Using the Hive Savings Bond would produce a much different outcome using the same 20 year time period.

hivesavingsbond.png

Now imagine this potential with some longer term bonds, say 3-5 year lock up with higher rates of return.

Do you think would be attractive to people? Certainly this will provide a much different angle on the fixed income market. The wonderful thing is that Hive requires the generation of a lot of HBD.

It is the perfect opportunity to insert Hive into the broader cryptocurrency discussion.

What are your thoughts? Let us know in the comment section below.


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I will be 55 this year. And you know what? I am still extremely excited and my positivity is gone through the roof with this HBD saving bond idea. This has to get off the floor fast for us old people.

Only issue I see, and I could be out to lunch, I see the HBD peg going way up. Would you pay 1.50 for an HBD if you new your high return rate on a bond?

That being said, financially it would still be a win win for all.

Bradley

!BBH

!ALIVE

Why would anyone pay $1.50 to collect $1.25 in one year?

Obv, paying $1.1 or $1.05 is different animal. Sensible on paper and twelve months of fun guaranteed - sweating if the HBD can keep the peg at the lower bound.

@taskmaster4450! You Are Alive so I just staked 0.1 $ALIVE to your account on behalf of @bradleyarrow. (25/30)

The tip has been paid for by the We Are Alive Tribe through the earnings on @alive.chat, feel free to swing by our daily chat any time you want.

The idea of having a peg is to not have it go up. We want it to be at a dollar. That is the reason for a stablecoin.

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Yes, I understand, your thoughts on HBD bonds effect on HBD stability?

The people doing V2K with remote neural monitoring want me to believe this lady @battleaxe is an operator. She is involved deeply with her group and @fyrstikken . Her discord is Battleaxe#1003. I cant prove she is the one directly doing the V2K and RNM. Doing it requires more than one person at the least. It cant be done alone. She cant prove she is not one of the ones doing it. I was drugged in my home covertly, it ended badly. They have tried to kill me and are still trying to kill me. I bet nobody does anything at all. Ask @battleaxe to prove it. I bet she wont. They want me to believe the V2K and RNM in me is being broadcast from her location. And what the fuck is "HOMELAND SECURITY" doing about this shit? I think stumbling over their own dicks maybe? Just like they did and are doing with the Havana Syndrome.

They are reckless and should have shown the proper media what they had before taking me hostage for 5 years.

What would you say while having a gun pointed at your head from an undisclosed location? Have people find it? My hands are tied while they play like children with a gun to my head. Its a terrorist act on American soil while some yawn and say its not real or Im a mental case. Many know its real. This is an ignored detrimental to humanity domestic threat. Ask informed soldiers in the American military what their oath is and tell them about the day you asked me why. Nobody has I guess. Maybe someone told ill informed soldiers they cant protect America from military leaders in control with ill intent. How do we protect locked up soldiers from telling the truth? https://ecency.com/fyrstikken/@fairandbalanced/i-am-the-only-motherfucker-on-the-internet-pointing-to-a-direct-source-for-voice-to-skull-electronic-terrorism

Just when I think I cannot be any more bullish on Hive, you done break the ceiling of my bullishness!
I’m already in love with Hive just with getting paid to create what I love, but now it’s also going to provide me a passive income from the rewards I’ve earned doing so! It just keeps getting better!

Well the 12% from the Hive Savings Program is already in place. That started last year and is an opportunity for everyone on Hive to get a very low risk, strong return.

We are now looking at simply adding to it.

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Already put 8k into savings while we went from $3, down $1.
I think another good edition to this would be an auto dollar cost average tool, that allowed me to setup up daily HBD savings deposits directly from Hive Powerdowns, or vice versa. During the bear market I'd DCA into Hive Power, and then slowly power down into savings while in the bull! I think long time Hive users would really make a lot of use out of this!

And interesting idea. Not sure how that would go over with the core development team since it might be a lot of coding.

But always interesting options opening up.

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I believe it is a nice idea and a better way to invest which is pretty awesome to enhance the blockchain in a positive way as well

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Thanks for the shoutout😎

Just to compare the power of the monthly compound....it adds an extra (nearly) $200,000 to the total of my original example.. So, we're talking about a huge bonus

Screenshot_20220316-125323.png

21k to 712k is pretty amazing. Although....a lot can happen over 20 years and we are definitely in for a ride of some sorts.

Let's just get that first year payed out before that crypto commission announces anything😂

What is cool about your thousand dollar idea is that it can be, to a great degree, funded with some of the rewards people get. If they engage and get a payout, especially as the price of HIVE increases, they will be able to keep filling their HBD savings.

Then the fun really begins.

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Yeah, 1000\year is less than 100\month so it's really not an unreasonable goal(for many)

I've been thinking of taking, say 10% of my hbd earnings and locking it up as it comes in -but it's still hard when a lot of us are so bullish on hive and have seen the price jump before. I do have some in savings, but I want to get to a goal of maybe 10% of my account value in the savings.

But, if we could get 25% in savings, it might want people to power down? Especially in bearish times?

I'm just a little baby half Dolphin, so I'm fine with the price staying low so I can continue to accumulate for a while...but I of course would like to see everything go to infinity and beyond

What you describe is the key: it gives people choices.

To me, I am about baseline building. If 25% is the second baseline (after some in the 12%), then I am doing pretty good.

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Great idea to push HBD to greater returns and keep users anchored on Hive. One other direction I would like to see is to have HBD and HIVE used in DeFi projects, maybe even also CUB, PolyCUB or others to follow. This way we would create better-decentralized markets for these assets with nice returns.

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One other direction I would like to see is to have HBD and HIVE used in DeFi projects, maybe even also CUB, PolyCUB or others to follow.

I agree but that is up to the second layer applications. Perhaps if we can make the base layer moves look more appealing, the second layers will jump on board.

Getting more HBD created is not a bad thing because then it can fund other projects.

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I really hope this happens and becomes a thing of reality as I for one am in and a minimum of 10 years has to be a must. With this scenario you could lock up different amounts being 1 year a 5 year and a 10 year which would be awesome. Slowly adding to my wallet daily and not surprisingly growing rather fast.

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For those with the understanding of how this works, we can see how it will compound over time. The key is to get one level started and then take it from there.

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Concept sounds like a good option though I am not sure how sustainable is this but the savings bonds or the deposit type approach with hive sounds like a good investment for the average people. I am sure they would love such feature as it earns them something.

It already exists, paying out 12% with an effective lock up period of 3 days. It is the savings project that is already in place.

This is just another layer: higher return yet less liquidity. It creates more HBD while not being liquid, thus reducing the threat to the system.

As for the amount printed, at 25% annually, from our current position, would mean 1.04 billion HBD in 20 years. Tether is like at 90 billion.

We are still not even in the game at that point.

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I’m already saving some HBD with the 12% APR.
I will definitely invest if we can lock HBD up for long term / saving bonds with even higher rates…
Looking forward to how it will develop.

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I am with you @littlebee4. I will be one who certainly jumps in. To me, this does not take much thinking.

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No… it doesn’t need a lot of thinking. You just can’t find this kind of APR anywhere else.
Couldn’t be that active lately here @taskmaster4450le
Got married and was a few days away 😉 so got a good excuse.
Will jump right in again 😎

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Another point to add that might be very helpful:

The $1,000 mentioned as an example, much of that can be funded on Hive through the rewards one receives.

Think about that for a second. Spending time on Hive each day, engaging with others, and one can have $500K after 20 years.

Find that elsewhere.

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Those numbers are pretty hard to argue with when you show the calculations there. Getting HIVE and HBD on some other exchanges would be pretty awesome. It seems like every other day the wallets are down in Bittrex for maintenance so in that respect our only/largest option isn't really a viable one. I am really excited about the potential here. It seems like there are enough people on board that this could eventually come to fruition and not just be something we talk about.

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I agree. It simply requires the core development team to program it. They have a lot on their plate but I think there is some support.

Fortunately, some of the code is already in place since they have the savings program in place. Of course, there are always snag when coding so nothing is as easy as it appears.

Hopefully we will see something from the core team about this very soon.

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Looking forward to it! Yeah, those gremlins always seem to have a way of mucking things up. Even the little ones.

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We all would like to see HBD (and HIVE) on more exchanges. Could this be the motivation that is needed for some entities to pick it up? Hard to tell but it cannot hurt. If there is a called for HBD outside of Hive, it stands to reason that exchanges will step up to fill that need.

Im here for the comments that explains why getting this done is so hard

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Exchanges are in business to make money and that comes from fees (mostly). They want to carry stuff that people use.

Thus far, HBD and even HIVE isnt in great demand. That said, we dont have a lot of LPs or things like that using HBD. Hopefully they will start also.

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This actually seems almost unreal - HBD being a decent stablecoin offering this high of a return would be pretty much unprecedented and potentially bring a lot of people who want to lock up some of their money for a safe return. This could not only succeed but also help HIVE grow significantly - really exciting prospect.

!1UP

I think it would be very attractive. The fact that it is not liquid might turn some people off but, eventually, there might be other options for that.

Personally I would add a nice stake to it.

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Hive savings bonds should fit in well with a self-directed IRA or a solo 401K. Crypto is fine in those but NFTs are not.

Not sure how NFTs fit into the conversation but I agree with you. This is a project to reduce risk as much as possible.

That is why HBD as a base layer token is very powerful. It is also driven via algorithm as opposed to some backing in USD as others claim to be.

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Sorry, I mentioned NFTs because those are one of the prohibited investments in self-directed IRAs and Solo 401Ks. However, crypto is not prohibited. I think a savings bond is extremely attractive to any investor. I foresee a time when the Hive saving bond is purchased by a single account, but the ownership is shared by several owners, kind of like a mutual fund. The actual mechanism to divy up the savings bond is outside of Hive, which would facilitate easy entry and exit into the bond by investors, again, like a mutual fund.

I think it's quite attractive and I would prefer having my HBD working for me while I am still working a normal job. It's not like I need the cash right away so having it get me yield seems like the best option. I wasn't thinking about the liquidity but it looks like people are already discussing it.

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Long term thinkers will love this concept. Throwing money in and earning 25% even if locked up for a year is no problem. That will more than compensate for what is missed.

It is a low risk investment. That is what going to the base layer does.

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This sounds great. However, I see a critical point (or at least I don't understand part of the mechanism very well): a compound interest of 25% per year means that in 20 years there will be 85.73X more Hive in circulation, to maintain at least its current value the entire Hive project would have to grow a lot.

This seems to me to be a very ambitious goal, but certainly achievable, and indeed could be facilitated by the bonds.

Keeping some of the Hive in circulation locked up and removing liquidity does not prevent the market from discounting this factor. But if the project goes ahead... well, we could be talking about much higher figures than 85 X.

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There is no extra HIVE being printed in the process - just extra HBD.

In combination with the haircut rule (HBD is backed by some virtual Hive but only up to certain point), there is a serious risk of HBD peg breaking. That is no big deal for HIVE holders (unless they happen to also hold non-liquid HBD).

I just love it. It is a smart project because it has so much upside if successful while all the risk is being outsourced to the ignorant (or even informed and dumb) bond holders who may end up with much more HBD (newly valued at $0.25) than they started with.

With the insane returns promoted in the world of Decentralized Finance and Cryptocurrency, it is easy to lose site of what is possible with the straight-forward, time-based returns. Here we are not threatened by rug pulls or projects disappearing. Hive is certain to keep producing blocks every 3 seconds, meaning people can always access the chain.

That's just it, eh? So often people are blinded by the insane APRs in the defi world. And while it is ok to chase them, building a solid and stable base is very important. A HIVE CD would give us just that: a solid place to put the majority of our wealth.

The example you gave is perfect.

!PIZZA

That is why the example of compounding are so important. We can see who much things grow over time.

Getting outside the insanity and returning to rational wealth building models, albeit with insane returns compared to traditional finance, is a step the industry has to take.

Sure the huge APR for new yield farming projects might always be there. However, over time, we need to offer something which reduces the risk.

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Because this is such an awesome post, here is a BBH Tip for you. . Keep up the fantastic work