Scaling Of Hive Is Of Utmost Importance

in #hive-1679222 months ago

There were a lot of takeaways from Hivefest. However, for me, there were a clear focus exhibited by the core developers that I feel is crucial.

When looking at this stuff, my view is that it is vital to look at things from "the ground up". We have to start at the most basic level and work up from there.

Hive is a network. It is a series of nodes that are interconnected which update the database every few seconds. Since the nodes are not related with regards to ownership, we are dealing with something that is decentralized.

On this level, it is also permissionless. Anyone with the technical know-how is free to set one up. Permission from some corporate body or head is not required.

Finally, we are dealing with a text database. Unlike the Bitcoin network which is, at this point, mostly financial transactions, Hive can store any type of text. This is akin to Wikipedia as opposed to the database JPMorgan runs.

With the basics, what is the most important factor. Most will say users. From the presentations, we can see how there is a different focus.


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Scaling Of Hive Of Utmost Importance

What happens if there are a million users on Hive? Obviously, this would make a lot of people happy.

However, what would happen if the network was only capable of handling the activity for 250K users?

Do you think that would be a problem?

The advantage that Web 2.0 have is they can scale. We know that, no matter what happens with the Meta applications, the company will have enough compute and bandwidth to process it all.

Web 3.0 has repeatedly run into this problem. Going back to the days of Steem, we see where the issue stems from.

Here is a short clip of what was said by Howo, one of the core developers.

https://inleo.io/threads/view/lucidlucrecia/re-nisxkwyrwh?referral=lucidlucrecia

This was a sentiment echoed by Blocktrades in one of his discussions. He stated that the roadmap was laid present when the fork took place back in 2020. The team knew exactly what needed to be done.

Unfortunately, it is not a matter of just changing a few lines of code. A lot was built over the last few years, with more to come.

My observation is that the base layer is designed to be as efficient as possible. This means moving activity elsewhere.

Hive application Framework (HAF)

One of the biggest moves in this direction might be the development of HAF. This is a layer 2 server system that frees the nodes from many of the calls from the applications.

By creating this layer, nodes that have blockchain information (read databases) can be accessed. This means the data is pulled from the blockchain by the HAF nodes but the engagement with the applications is with the HAF server. This lightens the load on the main nodes, freeing them up for other activities.

This might not be exciting stuff but look at the alternative. How many years has Ethereum been working on scaling that network? I think the update map was presented in 2017. Here we are 7 years later and it is still being focused upon.

Naturally, this stuff takes time.

It seems counterintuitive to worry about this now when there is no traffic. Of course, the mantra by many is Hive is dead. Here is a question: do you think so much effort would be placed by the development team if it was going nowhere?

They are well aware of the technologies that are out there regarding decentralization, open source, and Web 3.0. We are not dealing with non-technical people who are not aware of what the challenges of the industry are.

The best developers from the cypherpunk era worked hard on a decentralized consensus system that could be applied to money. For two decades, all attempts failed under Satoshi Nakamoto broke the code.

Unfortunately, as revolutionary as that was, it did not scale.

To me, that is fine. A network like that can have its place. However, that is not going to be for the masses.

Of course, we are looking at so much more. HAF is dealing with activities (and data) other than just financial. In fact, much of Hive's future is outside the bounds of finance.

Web 3.0, in my estimation, is going to be about AI. What this is means is the activity is going to skyrocket. The same is true of Web 2.0. We can already see the amount of inference compute that is required.

In other words, everyone is looking at scaling.

Millions of AI Agents

The idea of millions of users leads people to conclude that we are talking about humans.

When it comes to transactions, humans are of minimal impact as compared to machines. The amount of activity that comes from computer-to-computer engagement is of no comparison.

What happens if Hive has millions of AI agents? This is something that we much consider.

If the future is based, at least in part, on AI, then we must see this operate and be tied to blockchain. After all, few want it held exclusively by Big Tech.

Here is where open source and decentralization if crucial. However, to be a factor, Hive has to be able to handle the volume.

Howo said something very important: he felt that Steemit was trying to build on top of an unstable foundation.

This is a key point. If the base is not capable of operating in a efficient manner, it doesn't matter what is developed on top. It will end up suffering performance issues which will only drive users, developers and entrepreneurs away.

All of this has to be considered. The fact that so much attention is being given to scaling means that being able to handle the future activity is being addressed.

Waiting this out is not exciting stuff but then building a foundation rarely is.


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It just doesn’t make any sense to make claims like Bitcoin won’t scale when it’s clearly the king in the space. Hive and bitcoin complement one another. Trying to put Hive up against Bitcoin is such a mistake

The best and ONLY way to scale is to build stuff people want to use.

Not really. The only and best way to scale is to build things that machines or bots prefer to use. Humans are a very small percentage of internet users. In fact, the surface web, which is what can be accessed through a browser such as Chrome, Mozilla, Bing, etc. , which is what humans use, does not even reach 5% of the real content on the Internet. Not even when you include more than 5 billion internet users.
Automations are the real users and the main reason why these networks are built, and it is what really keeps the world running...

lol this is actully very true

The fact that hive is still alive is a combine effort, steemit was all about what to take from the table and not what to give to the table. But what do you think is the sustainability of hive?

Not exciting maybe but definitely important - and good this is being addressed.

I speak from my perspective as a new member on the platform, I do not see much being done to attract new users. In addition, old users are well positioned, and it is very difficult for new ones to succeed, which causes demotivation and abandonment of the platform. Now, looking from the point of view of increasing AI agents, it would be something to consider the expansion of the network.

New user growth is abysmal unfortunately. I’m a big supporter and user of our platform. But when people ignore the obvious it’s not helpful. It’s especially not helpful to aim nonsense claims that Bitcoin isn’t scaling. Hive and bitcoin are allies not enemies.

Totally agree, the two were designed for different things.

It sounds like you're saying Hive would benefit by becoming an AI content and automated upvoted farm.

I mean that's what steem is and it's doing just as well

Steem - 78.8 Million
SBD - 33.9 Million

Hive - 83 Million
HBD - 34 Million

There are certainly people who would prefer that set up, but would Hivians? Would it serve the marketplace well for both platforms to succumb to that?

Hi, @bitcoinflood,

This post has been voted on by @darkcloaks because you are an active member of the Darkcloaks gaming community.


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As a non technical user I really don't think much about scaling unless it's brought to my attention like this. If anything we're fortunate that Hive didn't explode in popularity too soon and attract more users than it could handle. If that had happened, no amount of fixing afterward would erase the memory of this whole thing being a waste of time.

The issue of scalability should be address very early. I admire that developers are already working on this. Waiting till hive gets a million user attention will be a big blow. It's better opportunity meets preparedness. More elbow to the developing team

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