New York's Decisions Have Financial Consequences

in #hive-1679229 months ago

A couple days ago we discussed the decision by a New York City judge regarding Donald Trump in his civil trial. The results sent Kevin O'Leary off the deep end. He took to the media pointing out that not only does every developer in the country do this, so do all real estate agents.

The fact that Trump was targeted with civil action is looking like a political move. Whatever the motivation, it caused O'Leary to claim he will never invest in New York again. Since that time, others have followed suit.

Here is the problem: optics means a great deal. When it comes to finance, trust is at the core of everything. This is why contract law is crucial. For New York, it seems connection law is what reigns.

That said, New York City is going to be in hot water.

Decisions Have Consequences Especially When In Debt

People often talk about debt levels. The reality is that debt is not a problem as long as there are willing buyers. Once the music stops and buy demand disappears, then trouble ensues.

For a municipality, this means the selling of bonds. Like most, the City has to offer out an interest rate appealing to buyers. If people lose trust, the coupon rate is going to have to increase.

The advantage to "munis" is they are tax exempt. It is a fantastic way to earn yield without having to pay Uncle Sam.

For New York, there is one problem: a $7 billion deficit. This is what the city was running before the migrant crisis. Nowthat it is offering them housing and other essentials, this is sure to increase.

The city was already enticing investors with higher yields. The financial outlook for the city, however, is dire.

To start, Wall Street profits are down. The city collects a ton of tax revenue from investment banks. Layoffs are on the horizon meaning the city income tax money is going to decline Then we have the outward migration as many entities are fleeing the city. We cannot overlook the commercial real estate crisis which is being driven, in part, by the remote work evolution.

All of this is making the city bonds look unappealing.

For reference of how this could look, Detroit might be the poster child. A decade ago, it was forced to declare bankruptcy, with a deficit of a little over $300 million.

Certainly, there is a stark difference between Detroit and NYC in size. However, the degree of numbers does not change the situation.

Pension Ponzi Scheme

There is another issue looming for many major United States cities: the upcoming pension crisis.

New York is in for another hit as it starts to face the reality of having to pay people their pension. Where is this money going to come from?

The pension funds are vastly underfunded. This means there is not enough money to cover the costs. Even if that were the case, part of the package is free healthcare for life, something that carries a great cost to the city.

Where this becomes a problem is that, by 2032, there will be more retirees being paid by to the 70% of US cities than those employed. What this means is taxes in those areas are going to increase.

By the way, on a larger scale, this is the same issue the EU faces with its aging population. This is a ticking time bomb and it is already evident that New York investment banks are not buying ECB debt. What happens when the music stops?

Of course, this has been seen throughout history. The most recent example was the Soviet Union. Many in the West feared this entity as it has such a large military. There is a problem: when you do not pay the military, they refuse to fight. With the Soviet soldiers, armed with an AK-47 and a bottle of vodka, as the checks stopped, one was put down while the other was picked up.

It doesn't take agenius to figure out which one fit into each category.

New York City might be able to sell its bonds. To do so, it is going to have to pay an ever increasing rate to attract investors. This, naturally, pushes up the cost of servicing, further hampering the budget.

To alleviate this, higher taxes are required, something that will not sit well. Here is where it all starts to unravel.

This is a chart of the population of Detroit over the last 40 years:

New York City might not follow suit but this is not uncharted waters. Something similar happened in the 1970s. It took two decades for the city to recover, mostly driven by the explosion of Wall Street.

We are getting close to the population level of 2000. If it drops into the range it saw in the early 1980s, there might be no rebound. This is compounded if the theory laid out in The Layout For The Globalization Of Real Estate comes to fruition and we are seeing the popping of the artificial urban real estate bubble.

Investors are going to have to look hard at this situation. The financial move of the next decade could be to short bonds of this nature.


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I've been to NY a few times in the past. The last time it was over 10+ years. But, last summer 2023 I was in Morristown NJ, and the day my wife had to work while out in NJ. I drove out to NY. What a shit hole. The mayor is a POS he not taking care of the city, maybe himself but NY has problems. Unless its changed again since that day I was there. Instead of spending the whole day there. I got back in my car and went to spend the day with my Portuguese peep in Ironbound, Newark, NJ. Bro I love NJ. Especially the shore areas. I don;t think i'll ever go visit NY again. NY is gone.

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It is the same with most major cities, especially in the Western countries. San Francisco is know for being a shit show, literally. Then we have Los Angeles. I have no idea how London and Paris are doing but I imagine they are similar.

Yes. I been to SF many years ago. But we stayed inside SF and area. It was beautiful back then. Now I know a few people that used to live there but they have gone back home to Portugal about 4 years ago +/-. The got sick of the shit show, and the druggies all zombified out walking up and down their street. I used to love Sf the way it was before they started using it as the public washroom. NJ is still nice. I got to go see Fall River, MASS. I hear many folks from my Island of Portugal live there. They brought a piece of home to MASS. I got to see this as I miss home at least once a day everyday. I'm just waiting for Toronto to become a public washroom, so I can tell my wife "I told you so" get your rubber boots we going back home, well my home. She born here in Toronto. I'm ready to go since 3 years ago.

From what you wrote and the data you reported, it seems that some American cities have been in difficulty for several decades. I didn't know this

Some have. Urbanization helped them a great deal with an influx of young talent.

That might be reversing. In fact, I believe it will be.

I really don't know much about new York, but from what you said here, it shows that cities, like New York, need to manage their money wisely to avoid problems like budget shortfalls, pension troubles, and losing investor confidence in every way. Remember, no money means no services, so responsible financial planning is key to a a city's finance success. Because when debts get too much, it will surely affect the economic situation of a place

You are dealing with politicians. They buy votes.

Yeah, I guess that's what the matter is everywhere.

This is interesting. New York has been one of the most popular states, because of its mix of culture, entertainment, and business. Imagining it losing a lot of its glamour and prestige is shocking. I hope they can turn this around.

This is referring to New Your City. I am not sure how the state is doing but, of course, the City makes up a big piece of the overall.

Yeah, I think companies leaving NYC will also affect the surrounding cities in some way.

It could. Stamford Ct was a big gainer in the 1970s when a lot of companies moved out.

What I think is something also to consider is corporate downsizing in terms of their real estate. If they have a portion of their staff working remotely, this means a lot less centralized office space.

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i have no idea how that works in US but isn't the bank the one that says this thing you have is worth 10k and we will loan you 5k on that.

Here i could say that my property is worth 5 million but the bank would say "yah nah, that is like 50k." realistically they don't even ask they just pay you a visit to check and give their own opinion.

is he charged because the bank borrowed him to much money? because from what i seen they are talking about Tramp personally not about the company. So it is not a fine for the incorrect financial reports for the company?

That is exactly how it works. There is no victim in this case. The bank has to agree to the terms that is offered.

That is what O'Leary was saying. With real estate, one side says it is worth X and the other Y. Ultimately, the bank decides what it is willing to lend upon.

so it makes sense that it didn't make sense :)

i can see how that could affect New York but it is probably a good thing that this was a Tramp Bad thing and will probably not happen again. question is are people ready to risk it.

wow those are some interesting stats O.O are those people just leaving that state or leaving the country