My VYB Content Moderation Proposal

in #hive-1814653 years ago

Hello Brainiacs, for my first post to the VerifyYourBrain Tribe I'd like to propose a model for decentralized moderation of the Tribe. It's not perfect, but with your help we can get it there.

2021-12-21-16-43-14-339.jpgSource

When I initially read the Unofficial Whitepaper, moderation was the only section that gave me doubts. It sounded a bit too centralized for my tastes, so I had a solo brainstorming session and this is what I came up with.

The General Idea


First of all, no one should ever judge through an assumption in a way that would cause harm without evidence. Nor should any one person be able to derail the reach of another. It should only be after a review by a number of your peers that any negative action be taken against another.



The basic idea is to add a flag option(add new tag) to every article and make a selection of offenses easy to choose from. Something like a labelled hot button that only needs a tap or click to activate it. This way you just tap/click the hot button that most closely fits the offense in question, like Plagiarism, Child Porn, or Spam, for example.

Depending on the choice, a relevant option will appear, like;

{{Edit}}
I really like Trostparadox's and Calamam's idea to require a user to reach a certain level in the Tribe before they are able to moderate. In my opinion, how often and the quality of their engagement in the community should be the criteria with the highest weight given.

  • For plagiarism you should first check the text/image through a 3rd party like Google reverse Image Look up or SmallToolsSEO Plagiarism Checker. This will result in a url for the original, so the appropriate next step after choosing an infraction for this option would be for a text box to appear asking for the URL.

  • For spam, maybe have the same option where three text boxes appear, so the URLs of multiple links can be added.

  • For Child Porn it might a little more tricky, because this would be more obvious. The issue here is that if more immediate action is taken by the word of one user, for example, there's a high likelyhood it could be abused.

That being said, for this particular option, since it's the most serious, the article could be minimized until more users weigh in or muted until it can be reviewed, so it's not left up, causing serious repercussions for the platform.

  • All actions should be reversible as well, to avoid brigading. Since the VYB concept was created, because the downvote can and is being abused, we need to allow the flags to be reversed in the same way they are added.

  • Because these types of features tend to be used out of emotion, rather than objectivity much of the time, I think we still need a group who manually reviews each flag before permanent action is taking. It will probably be a good idea if these positions are elected.

Adding a system similar to this will make sure fewer infractions slip through the cracks. A small group of users cannot evaluate every post, but can review a smaller group of posts that are already curated for them. This will make everyone's responsibilities a little less.
JointPics_20211221_193632.PNGSource

Order of Actions After the Initial Flag


After the flag has been initiated, the tag will/can replace the main tag, so everyone can see there may be an issue. The number of users needed to valid the flag can be determined after an initial debate, which can be increased as the userbase grows.



One way to show where in the process the tag is to be validated is to show just the tag initially. After another user or three agrees, it could show a checkmark or some type of symbol. For the final validation it can show the checkmark enclosed or simply be muted at this point. Another option is to just collapse the post, while it's waiting for review.

As suggested in the VYB Whitepaper, the idea was to create a small group to take charge of the moderation. There are many issues with this method. Here are just some of them;

  • Not everyone(or enough to be fair) is online at the same time, so catching issues early will be unlikely.

  • This of course is Centralized and opens the process up to skepticism and bias. While bias will always exist, having a static group would allow bias in a consistent direction.

  • Obviously it goes against the goals of the Hive Blockchain to become fully decentralized.

A couple years ago Minds.com created a jury system of 12 random users to judge flagged content. As most of us know who like to use the shuffle option when listening to music on our media player, few are very efficient. The same users were being chosen often and many users were never chosen at all. This can be both a flaw in the algorithm or built in.

Screenshot_20211221-193958.pngSource

While this system is still being used, it has caused more issues than it's worth. There were many legit posts and accounts being removed and banned. This is still happening today and the platform isn't growing.

Another platform I'm familiar with who is trying to decentralize their moderation is Bastyon.com. Currently their system mutes an account after the reputation reaches -30 and bans them on a second infraction. They also have a flagging feature that is controlled by an algorithm.

The formula for the flagging feature requires the amount of flags to be at least 1/3 of the upvotes, with a minimum of ten flags needed to mute a post on the platform. Again there are two strikes given before an account is banned.

They are working on a new system similar to the minds.com jury system, which I'll let the screenshot from their FAQ explain.

JointPics_20211221_185112.PNGsource

The moderation proposal I outline above is a tweaked version of what den.social uses on their platform mixed with bastyon.com's flagging feature. There are many benefits for using a feature that works similar to my proposal.

  • It's decentralized. We the users are responsible for moderation, as it should be.

  • It gives us the tools to act as we see it. A small group of static users will have trouble dealing with any issues in a timely manner, but not the userbase as a whole.

  • It can scale with the userbase as it grows. As the userbase grows and more users are browsing throughout the day, the thresholds can be increased to make sure it's as fair as possible, while still being able to remain effective.

  • It can help to increase interaction and give the userbase a sense of ownership. If we feel invested and understand how important it is to keep our environment inviting and fair for us all, we are more likely to read content we wouldn't normally open. If it's on par with standards, while it's open and has been read, why not give it a vote and drop a comment.

Well, there it is. What do you think? What would you add or substract? Do you have an idea for a more fair and efficient system?

Let's here it. All Tribes are an experiment, so let's experiment.

@scolaris, tagged as promised👍

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I say we let people post what they want and DOX anyone committing crimes against children, leave it there.

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@notconvinced

Thanks for the post and thanks for sharing your brainstorming thoughts and ideas. We need much more of this!

Community involvement and transparency are two of the hallmarks we are hoping to enshrine in the VYB moderation processes (and all VYB processes, for that matter).

Decentralization is also a very worthy goal. In the short-term, all H-E tribes and tokens begin 100% centralized (there's just no way around it). Even Hive-Engine itself is centralized (although they are taking proactive measures to become more decentralized).

Two of the biggest problems with truly decentralized governance structures involve [1] the ability to purchase influence (the achilles heel of PoS and DPoS, imho) and [2] the ability to create hundreds of alt accounts. As such, you can't have a good governance system relying on stake-weighted voting (just leads to oligarchical rule) but you also can't have a good governance system based on 'democracy' (i.e. everyone gets one vote, regardless of their financial influence), because of alts and bots.

One of the concepts @calumam and I have been discussing (for months, actually) is something we are tentatively calling "Proof of Stewardship" (PoSt). It basically involves an accountholder 'proving' over time that they espouse the values and principles upon which the tribe was founded. Those who demonstrate PoSt could then be awarded special NFTs that enable them to 'cast a vote' in the democratic sense of the word. However, those votes need not be equally-weighted (could depend upon levels or degrees of 'proven stewardship' that are gained over time).

This is the best idea we've come up with thus far to enable true community-level governance (but we are definitely open to other ideas and concepts).

It will take some time to flesh all these things out, but that is our goal.

In the short-term, the VYB Curation Project and the VYB Anti-Abuse Teams will focus primarily on transparency. Intentional moves to involve more and more community involvement will come (in ever-increasing degrees) in due time.

Totally, I'm just hoping to start the conversation among a larger group and add more ideas to the mix. A mix of a few different ideas and different plays on ideas that may trigger an epiphany in another is how the best end product can be honed. Sometimes anyway...

I think it's important to get the community involved early on in some way. Having to earn your way into a higher level of moderation makes sense to me. It's also important to keep things as simple as possible as well.

I hope you release more details in the near future. As for gaming through multiple accounts? There's little that can be done about that, but it can be minimized. You might be on to something along those lines.

I think if you add stake back into moderation(that's what downvotes were) you are recreating the same monster.

Engagement should certainly be the number 1 priority for earning your nft...imo

The Matrix-8 Solution can soon deal with all the issues you mention, i think, especially if you help by joining us.

See my comment from earlier today for more info.

https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@atma.love/re-khaleelkazi-20211229t22719405z?ref=atma.love

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Amazing.

We are seeing a similar avenue of opportunity. Your proposal provides a logical avenue of expansion in terms of moderation I saw when @trostparadox ask @calumam and I to assist him. The only problem at this time is that I don't believe your system exists on Hive. So, we would have to ask someone to build it. Easier said than done I think? I'll have to build a plan for this system of yours. I hope you don't mind if I ask you for input in the near future.

Some basic things to consider in your proposal would be:

  • Business rules
    • Voting
    • Moderation
    • Communication
    • Appeals
  • Estimated cost
  • Estimated project schedule
  • Estimated testing schedule
  • Risk Management

Can this system be purely decentralized? I'm not sure. It's a philosophical question that we'll have to debate as time progresses. It's definitely a path I saw myself pursuing in the future.

@trostparadox, is there a process I need to follow on Hive to have a developer for the VYB site review a programming change like this one? I mean, I don't know if it's possible unless I ask. I'm not familiar with Hive programming policies.

trostparadox did mention there was a process in the planning stages and it was pretty good from what parts of it he shared. My intention was to start a conversation and I must admit, I'm surprised at the low number of responses I've received. 😁

I know. But it’s the holiday season in a lot of places. Also, I’ll be carrying it forward too. It won’t be forgotten.

Thank you, I'm humbled. I really like trosts thinking about users needing to work their way up to participating in any moderation system that arises. My thoughts are that engagement in the tribe needs to have a high weight in moving up the ladder to reach that point.

I'm sorry to jump right into the middle of this conversation, particularly as I'm not in any wise an authority or elder in the tribe, but I wanted to point out the dangers of relying on only the most respected members of an organization.

First, it really piles work on the possibly hardest working folks in the community, and that can be an awful burden. Then it runs the risk of creating cults of personality, as certain high value folks are tapped on the reg.

It causes the organization to become inwardly focused, to be insular. It prevents new voices from invigorating the community, promoting stasis, eventually ensuring disconnection from the wider world.

I strongly suggest enabling relatively fresh voices to speak in councils, because it is when we are listened to that we speak most carefully, and by this means you can gain not only new insights from such fresh perspectives, but you can develop those new voices into the respected elders that will need to be in the bullpen as turnover churns lauded doyennes.

Particularly if it's regarding moderation of a single post, any shortcomings of those young turks won't alter the fabric of the Vybiverse too dramatically. It's a good way to winnow the field and sort champions from the up and comers.

Just to limit how many comments I will make I'll mention an unrelated matter that also struck me reading to this point. I do not think you should have a set suite of reasons for moderation that are cast in institutional stone. I reckon there are enough folks that find any given material objectionable to raise issues if afforded the opportunity, and some folks will virtue signal with any particular issue if it enables them to appear virtuous to do so, so having set tags for moderation opens the door to such karening.

If someone raises an objection to content of any kind, and there is nominal support to raise a moderation issue, or ticket, then let the moderation process begin. If such support isn't evidenced, then the ticket never results.

I dunno how to ascertain what 'nominal' means in this case, but this enables the community to always be the source of objections, and unless a particular clique seeks to strangle some baby in the bathwater (which is sure to happen IME) then it doesn't create a moral or ethical relic of the past by maintaining tags that are automagically moderated.

Just my couple pfennigs worth of thoughts.

Thanks for all your hard work and thought into making this project happen.

My vision is that everyone, after reaching a very obtainable level would have the option to moderate. Everything I've suggested is about giving the community as a whole the option to become involved, if they so choose and not have to be selected within an elite unit first to do it.

You're very welcome. What gets me about all this is that moderation and curation are virtually the same entity. When you curate you're determining if a level of quality exists to warrant higher votes. In moderation, you're determining the same thing and applying a mechanism to stabilize the platform. Why the two are thought of separately I have no idea.

We can approach your recommended level of automation, but I think it needs to be approached in stages to reduce cost and resources. I'll mention that in my next article about it when I request proposals.

You are correct, both are essentially the same, but moderation's end result can be more permanent. As for moving in small steps, of course. I was never thinking this would happen all at once, nor even as I laid out.

My reason for this particular idea was for the ease of use and ease of creation as well. The feature exists in part, with a few tweaks needed and it's easy to understand, since most everyone understands how to use tags and their purpose. So, building upon existing features should, in theory be easier than adding a whole new feature.

I want going to say anything because I'm mulling it over. I'm thinking about the freedom in America, the freedom of speech, and how it means that I must defend the right of others to say what they want even when I don't like it. I'm thinking of this because when it comes to flagging content, I'm thinking of people who would say something I hate. What would keep someone from flagging content so that it isn't seen, even if it doesn't violate anything? Say anti-vyb content... it's not plagiarism, child porn, violence, etc...

If you come from this standpoint, will the decentralized, or more decentralized, methods better protect the thoughts and opinions of those farthest from yours or other moderators?

I think the only reason that one would need to be moderated is for threats of violence, child porn, spam and plagiarism. Otherwise the content should be judged by each individual through the current system; vote or ignore.

That being said, the only reason I weighed in with this proposal is to start the conversation for how we can better moderate objectively without the downvote, because a more centralized model is slated to be used.

I'm 100% for freedom, even if some of those infractions I mention above are to be allowed. I believe we need thicker skins, rather than sidelining content, which makes us uncomfortable. Unfortunately, the majority and the law require some sort of moderation on these and other topics.

Scams. Financial fraud. Such cases.

Sounds awesome actually, btw im currently offgrid, my firts xmas with the baby took me a long week to process, and it was hard as hell to manage "free time" to do all the shopping, cooking and caring. My bad with it and i will be back 26th of december to help with modding to the best of my potencial.

Still, the problem with calculating cost its about "how much time would that take", because if you notice sometimes is more about "time" than anything else. TO have a team dedicated to both adding such a feature to a front end(It would be posible, esency points and boosting are evidence of being able to add something that dint exist out of the thin air) then go as far as having a team dedicated to keep the ball rolling? Modding a community takes about 1 mod per 30 post daily and that is a overworked mod xD, It could go as far as 10 mods as cervantes, for example.

It could potentially cost a lot of money, and that doesnt come from hive, but vyb directly, it would be hard to secure payments andsupport from hive proposals. But it would be something "doable" in a community in theory.

So i would support it but it would make a fixed governance that have roles and powers, making a decentraliced community highly power dependan on a few persons :S And das is not good.

I get it man. We're on a similar path. I'm just a couple of years ahead of you. Do what you can and when you can. Give me a time when you expect to be back. You're good.

Today sunday i want to get back into hive, both blogging and modding. the baby just started to sleep so im gonna sleep now, when i wake in about 6-8 hours (hopefully) i will dive about 10 posts and then make one of my own, then proceed further with modding, but i think the option the guy said on the post was actually petty solid, group minds if "healthy leadership" rises, would be a lot better than lone wolfs with a lot of overwork :S