What the fuck do witnesses do?

in #hive7 days ago


About a week ago there was a post by @khaleelkazi asking people to take action and update their witness votes to support active witnesses on Hive. The post is a link to a YouTube video where @scaredycatguide talks about how it's crazy how @leofinance isn't a top 20 witness and they should be.

This video made the rounds, and was talked about by quite a few people, ironically while @leofinance has been (and still is) missing all blocks for the last 10+ days.

Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 677. 2024-12-1 12:49:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 678. 2024-12-1 13:29:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 679. 2024-12-1 14:3:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 680. 2024-12-1 14:33:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 681. 2024-12-1 15:7:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 682. 2024-12-1 15:39:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 683. 2024-12-1 16:13:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 684. 2024-12-1 16:49:45 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 685. 2024-12-1 17:21:45 (UTC)
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Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1087. 2024-12-10 21:47:34 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1088. 2024-12-10 22:17:23 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1089. 2024-12-10 22:59:23 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1090. 2024-12-10 23:35:23 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1091. 2024-12-11 0:11:23 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1092. 2024-12-11 0:51:23 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1093. 2024-12-11 1:27:23 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1094. 2024-12-11 1:57:23 (UTC)
Witness leofinance missed 1 new block(s). total miss= 1095. 2024-12-11 2:35:23 (UTC)

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This resulted in @louis88 & @gandalf discussing it up in #witness on Mattersmost.

@khaleelkazi steps in and is clearly concerned about @gandalf's eating habits.

At this point, I have seen others mentioning a "discussion about witnesses going on in Mattersmost". A statement is also made in the LeoFinance discord to reconsider voting for @gandalf, @louis88, @arcange. Why I wonder? I already know I've been on this list for a while as I have heard about it quite a few times. I have no illusion of being popular.


@arcange is right here, this discussion is actually available to everyone without even being invited to Mattersmost, the #witness channel is mirrored to https://openhive.chat/ where everyone on Hive is free to join. It is no longer the "secret slack" Ned ran.


I will never make another gif this amazing and it makes me sad.

This discussion goes on a little further...

Ok, I'm not going to narrate and let you read it and decide for yourself how you feel about it.

What the fuck do witnesses do then?

So, to answer the question, What the fuck do witnesses do?. Here is my take.

A witness is not a fund to support the most popular people or projects. A witness 'aka block producer' is a technical position on Hive to secure the blockchain by running approved code that witnesses transactions and ensures they meet our strict criteria and attaching their signature to a block. Granted it has mostly become running @someguy123's "Hive in a Box" which a five year old probably could run.

A witness is largely automated and the real work outside of the day to day block signing. This real work isn't talked about much and mostly ignored by most. It involves being acutely familiar with Hive and it's ecosystem to make educated and rational choices on the direction of Hive which ultimately is implemented in code. A witness is not a political position or office to be held. It's a responsibility to be around when Hive needs it most, during hard forks and critical issues and knowing how technical changes can affect our blockchain. It is not a popularity contest or reward fund for good people or good projects.

Voting for witnesses is critical to Hive remaining decentralized and running smoothly.

We are not Solana after all.

I personally have very specific criteria for voting witnesses. I vote for witnesses that I believe are technically capable to handle technical crisis if one was to arise and I feel confident they will show up if one did. I also trust them to make selfless decisions on technical aspects of Hive implemented in Hard (and Soft) Forks, I like my forks hard and consensual.

That being said, while this is what a witness is "suppose to do", it is always great to see them do more, and while that may influence my personal witness choices, these are the minimum viable product of a witness. Anything less puts my assets, and yours, at risk.

While I specifically mentioned @leofinance in this post because, it was what started this discussion. This is more about what witnesses actually do and why it is important to make good choices when voting on them. Feel free to make your own choices and take what you want from the discussion.



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this makes me so happy I never became a steem/hive maxi

Yeah probably. That's the problem with giving every account so many votes. I think y'all should change that. Still stake based but only 1 %100 vote, 2 %50 votes, 4 %25 votes and so on.. And now I'm off for more popcorn 🍿

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Are we back to Fucking Steem days Drama's again? 🤣

Nah, the drama here isn't entertaining.

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I don't think I've leofinance as witness but will check out just in case, it's so plain obvious that producing blocks properly is the main duty of a witness that I don't get the point to have a discussion about it.

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" I vote for witnesses that I believe are technically capable to handle technical crisis if one was to arise and I feel confident they will show up if one did."

Well said

Well said (2)

I particularly love how LEOFINANCE is a joke on all sides, I'm still waiting for my “NFTS” from the campaign, I'm still waiting for them to fix the error of creating an account with two digits, which becomes a ghost. (Just look for my test account @ye). I'm waiting for the money they're earning from funding to be allocated to another onboarding campaign. I'M WAITING FOR IT TO ACTUALLY BE CURATED BY ABRAVISA, AND NOT A CYCLE BETWEEN THE TEAM.

I should again dictate the words of some other organizers from other blockchains, if that's appropriate of course. But automatic voting is the worst idea, why do we still have that?

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But automatic voting is the worst idea, why do we still have that?

Pretty sure most investors in the world don't want to spend 8-12 hours a day reading shit posts to get a return on their investment.

So why do we create posts? If no one will read them.
It really doesn't make any sense

PIZZA!

$PIZZA slices delivered:
davideownzall tipped themarkymark
danzocal tipped themarkymark
@overclocked(1/5) tipped @danzocal

When I missed a deadline at work first I had to do is explain my boss why (if there was a why) ; Ofcourse I went to him proactively.

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@themarkymark! @michael561 likes your content! so I just sent 1 BBH to your account on behalf of @michael561. (1/1)

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Perhaps having face to face zoom discussions between witnesses, instead of discord would make for better “witness/team synergies”

There is dev zoom that happens monthly most of which are witnesses.

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For complex topics we have core dev meetings, but this case isn't anything like that. It's plain simple: witnesses should do their job and react to issues in a timely manner.

Btw, instead of zoom we are using community hosted, open source platform for our "calls".

Yes, bottom line, I want to feel that my investment is protected properly. Thanks for everything you do.

We are not Solana after all.

Can you elaborate on that? What's up with Solana?

Solana is a very centralized chain that goes down often.

how to get an invitation to mattersmost or is it only accessible thru openhive.chat?

Mattersmost is limited to witness and dapps. The witness channel is mirrored to open hive chat though.

I've been running a witness node for over a year, and helped build some dapps, how can I get access?

thanks! will wait and see if he responds to this tag.

since you are still not banned and cancelled from this community - they do pretty much nothing i agree.

I go for a few days and come back there is a new drama LOL Hive The Telenovela such fun blockchain we never get bored here.

This place thrives on drama

"Thrives" is a stretch but I do think is what keeps the chain going at this point

As someone coming back to Hive after needing to be away for a few years, as someone who sees this place as something more than a place for crypto to crypto, I really appreciate this serious look at the contrast between different perspectives on what a Hive witness is, or should, be doing. Recognizing my votes as an account with relatively little Hive Power don't mean much, I'd like to use them, in a considerate way. Is there a way to see what witnesses a specific user (...say, you) has voted for, to help begin the process of qualifying witnesses beyond voting for who is already popular? !BBH

Witness voting can be seen on several block explorers. Here's one here with marky's votes: https://explore.openhive.network/@themarkymark?

Note that you will need to expand "witness voting" on the left-hand side.

Thank you for this

Thank you, for this and your other participation in this conversation.

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technically it's https://hivehub.dev/blocks

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Wild that some random thing I randomly said actually created some kind of domino effect. Especially considering I have zero weight or clout on this blockchain. Hopefully it created some kind of constructive momentum on a whole. Fingers crossed.

You never know what will be a catalyst until it already happened.

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Facts sir! It created a discussion, which at the end of the day is never a bad thing since witnesses play an integral role. Glad I accidentally sparked a convo.

I don't think it's your comment that triggered what's happening.

Khal's post title and content are clearly about witnesses. I guess we can all agree on what we can take away from the video: "Check out what the witnesses you vote for are doing.". Your comments in the video were totally fine.

The irony is that at that very moment, and for some time already, Khal was not checking what their own witness was (not) doing i.e. missing blocks. On top of that, it lasted for days after the video was published.

Then came his reaction when we started talking about it...

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So in essence, some kind of positive momentum was created :-) Discussion about witnessing. Cool, its an important topic.

I don't think it has been positive considering it was taken as an attack, so no lessons learned.

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Even with that said, still seems it shined a light on opinions and expectations for all parties. Half the battle is knowing. I'm still seeing some positives here. 🤷‍♂

Considering the response, I have a hard time seeing it. The real issues are completely ignored and it's just a finger pointing contest. I feel we actually went backwards.

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I just want mine HIVE how he should be....

My Miners Perspektive is, i do not get my money for working on Hive Chain... I need Peoples Votes too, a lot of them, to have a little chance to get a little bit of my given money for the chain back.

That is my Problem why i did nothing all the years for supporting Hive on this side.

I do not work for nothing. ;-)

Salve

Alucian

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I like how he closed the discussion

"sure bud"

Like, i can't get a way out so I'll try and look cool to quit it without explain...

But isn't a witness someone who runs the node code of hive? And the software just does all? At least that's what I understood...

Even if my vote is irrelevant, I always check miss blocks when voting, if the person does project for hive and without being hypocrite, who offers more apr for hbd

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A witness runs the code that keeps Hive running, but they also choose what to run. Seeing as most witnesses are not technical and just running Hive in a Box, it's kind of just people running whatever everyone else runs without a thought.

Oh so you don't even need the specific version to run... Explains why lot of witnesses have old versions, it's just a copying "you do that so I do too"
Thanks for explaining

!PIZZA

@bpcvoter3, sorry! You need more $WRD to use this command.

The minimum requirement is 50.0 WRD balance.

More $WRD is available from Hive-Engine or Tribaldex

You have to run the same major version, but there are some updates that are minor or only affect full nodes and are not required for witness nodes.

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I really need to update my witness votes. My selections were based on their past history, and my opinion of their integrity, intelligence, and composure.

Totally agree that producing blocks is number one priority.

Can't stand witnesses blabbing offensive manner of opinions and politics. We already pay them to work, and trust them for governance, and hope they will cooperate smoothly in communications. If I think any of them represent a minority controversial, disruptive opinions different from mine, I consider removing my vote, and perhaps even noting for the future why I will never vote for them again.

Let the developers and content creators promote the potential of Hive, and let witnesses keep it operational. If they want to do both, keep those roles mutually exclusive. We have other ways of supporting and rewarding developers and content.

If a developer wants to be paid as a witness, they need to prioritize there witness role above all else, or else get off the list. They won't earn my vote if the block is stalling when it's their turn.

Developers who want to be paid more... please don't bother the witnesses with that. It just makes you look greedy and lacking grace by attacking them for earning more.

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When I grow up, I aspire to become a Hive blockchain witness, contributing to the network's growth and ensuring its integrity and reliability.

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Why do you keep downvoting my original content just because a friend I helped out year's ago is exposing you 🤔

Can you explain why you keep downvoting my original content

I create all my digital art from scratch I take all photos myself I write everything myself

I'm not a fake account you can find me on Instagram YouTube and twitter @kgakakillerg

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We have had our disagreements in the past, but I thank you for this, Mark. This is the kind of transparency and information we need about who is running the chain. I have already read back through the relevant conversations, and YEAH, we needed to know all of that.

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Since this is a public forum and I have no witness of my own I do still have a small voice and my voice would also say witness need to produce blocks and secure the network.

Without those two attributes how does a blockchain do its intended role.

No way tech savvy and very lazy to even begin to start dabbling into the specifics of how to run a witness or even create my own dapp in hive.

Would love to have that achievement but like they say only a worthwhile cause is a hard cause worth having.

My two cents.

Carry on whales.

I like to support reliable and active witnesses who do a little bit extra, though I disagree that the witness position is not political.

As much as I hate politics we might need to have some sort of regular political process to bring some accountability and raise the bar a little. I am happy with a fair chunk of the Top 20 but we could always do better and I don't even realize there is the odd issue like this until after it blows up and I only ever review my witness votes on a blue moon.

Maybe instead of resisting it and pretending it's not we should embrace it.

It is what it is, nothing something we can really change, where there is money or power, there will be politics.

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That doubt, political or not, is because we (human beings behind witnesses) usually have multiple roles here. For example a witness can also be a blogger, can be a developer, and can (should!) be also a stakeholder.
It’s really strange to trust a witness who doesn’t have skin in the game and could jump ship the very next day.
In the end, witnesses are here to serve Hive and its users - doing what’s best for the platform, as long as it aligns with what the users believe. Otherwise, unlike politicians in our countries, witnesses can be “fired” within minutes.

True that

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The first and primary duty of witnesses should be to produce blocks.

I just looked, Leofinance hasn't been producing blocks for a week. He withdrew from Witnesses. Hive's development and recognition worked hard. It created and maintains one of the most active communities. Despite this, I didn't vote for Leofinance as a witness. I think it deserved a witness vote. Thank you for your efforts and hard work for Hive.

There is a witness who last updated the Hive price 4 years ago and is in the top 30. I think this situation is also surprising.

A lot of witnesses don't take running a price feed serious and believe it is optional.

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Really needed to see this. It affirms things I already knew, but if we don't get affirmation from time to time our conviction can weaken, and that could be a clue things have changed. Seems leopards don't change their spots, neither a man's character.

Imma go check my witness votes, for what they're worth, just to make sure they're all still producing blocks.

Thanks!

Somehow, not a single bit of this surprises me. If I had a server that was down for eight days and I was that dismissive or uninterested about getting it back up and running, I would be fired. It's as simple as that. Is it annoying when seven different people come to me to say a service is down? Yes, but I still fix it. I don't start a separate argument about how they print too much...

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Thank you very much for sharing this important and valuable exchange. I will re-evaluate my witnesses support. Before anyone says, who cares about my little support, I will say that in my experience ensuring you have the strongest, most stable and most reliable production environment is foundational to any successful business. Hive is a business and not just an attention seeking platform for influencers. I don't want to support something that encourages behaviour similar to what Elon Musk does.

As per @khaleelkazi

Witnessing blocks isn’t the only thing a witness should be doing

Maybe it should be. With do respect, I have learned a great deal from you and your followers when it comes to marketing and promoting a product and service. I am all for converting ideas into high quality products and services. And as a community we all want growth and good governance.

But...sometimes you have to accept the facts and not try to make it something it isn't.

If your into making anything or growing anything, a safe and reliable production system is priority one. When a system is not well it gives signs that it needs attention. Well, that starts with witness monitoring and taking action as soon as possible when a flag is drawn to your attention. For whatever reason, there was an incident and that incident was not immediately addressed. That is a huge no no and what can only be best described as a #TooFuckeh problem that needs to be solved.

I know I am a newbie here on Hive but I am not a newbie when it comes to solving problems. As a business owner, I am less likely to invest going forward into a system when I know that the most important part is being neglected.

What could be a higher priority for a witness than taking immediate action when there is an incident that causes a block failure?

✅✅✅ Something Reasonable 💯

I don’t want to waste any of our time, so I’ll keep it to a few brief points:

  1. Witnessing blocks isn’t the only thing a witness should be doing
  2. LF isn’t a top 20 consensus witness but is one of the largest projects on the chain doing the most to grow it externally.
  3. Yes our witness went down last week for reasons that I don’t feel like saying publicly but involve someone who’s worked with me to run the node. Will be back up soon and witnessing blocks however instead of courteously saying anything to me over DM, other top 20 consensus witnesses decided to immediately talk shit. Not what I want to see from leadership (a few of whom do nothing but witness blocks. Building little of value for hive)
    4 The video is merely a suggestion to be more active in governance. Something we should be proud to tell our community to do
  4. The subsequent campaign to talk shit is merely proving my point that there are certain rent seeking witnesses who don’t deserve their top 20 spot but have held it so long, it’s hard to instill a regime change

Open and active discussions about things like this should be widely held and praised for happening. If someone makes a video like what I did, you get attacked in more ways than one (including having our witness go down shortly thereafter).

I’ll continue to publicly state my opinions and if anyone wants to be butthurt about that, then let it show their true nature.

Yes our witness went down last week for reasons that I don’t feel like saying publicly but involve someone who’s worked with me to run the node. Will be back up soon and witnessing blocks however instead of courteously saying anything to me over DM, other top 20 consensus witnesses decided to immediately talk shit.

If you expect to be a top 20
Witness you shouldn’t need anyone to tell you, you should have systems in place to notify you and even redundancy.

lol that’s not what I wrote and those things were in place till the video I made clearly pissed off the people who I was talking about without naming

I wrote that their response was shit talking as opposed to productive. It’s quite obvious if you read the screenshots you yourself included

Witnesses should be productively working together to grow the chain

Simply sitting back and witnessing blocks is 10%. That’s the entry fee to even being in the conversation. There’s so much needed on hive to actually make this chain succeed

The community will continue to be fed up by rent seekers

Witnesses should be productively working together to grow the chain

Let’s worry about producing blocks first.

Seems you’re doing a good job of that already

Now let’s worry about growing the chain and being productive in other ways.

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While I agree that there needs to be a regime change, this witness vector may have been a misfire. In the end, all power seems to stem from blocktrades and smooth-including control of the 20 witnesses and the dao. Even the lesser big powers are kept in a checkmate because of this.

I am not too familiar with the whole inleo thing, but groups like hivewatchers would kill us small devs-I am a case in point-who uses the chain for data, instead of another blog. you and theycallmedan were speaking about the need of using the chain for data for an AI database [in violation of hivewatchers "post it on hive first rule"], and the impossibility of storing images to hive (you can). No, I am not a dev asking for work, and I am sure your own devs can figure simple things like that out; It's rather easy, just convert the data to base64 (or maybe something else more efficient) and develop a chaining mechanism to piece longer files together.

Reaching out to the dash (and other) community is one of the many things that steem should have been done nearly a decade ago (and i don't mean the obyte air drops). Many things in business comes down to the proper marketing, and part of that is the ability to network both internally and externally. Those who focus on internal marketing tend to be myopic and have tunnel vision and blow thousands of dollars on projects that don't add value while also harming hive as an investment. While they focus exclusively on Chrony capitalism on the DAO throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks at a cost of millions of dollars (which has proven to be ripe for abuse), you have welcomed in another chain (in what capacity, I don't know). You are right for calling out the "governance"-but the witnesses aren't really the governance. They are just hand selected block processor at the behest of a single governor, king blocktrades the unready. There is no decentralization at all; those claiming hive is decentralized perhaps could be liable for fraud.

You, splinterlands, and actifit seems to have a lot of use on the chain, and the latter just seems to be yet another front end. I could be wrong, but with your developments (which I am not familiar with),I see that as translating into that you have a lot of power both in terms of people and ability. If you were to fork, or move to another steem based chain (even steem), on an exclusive basis, I think that could be a serious dent in the hive ecosystem, as well as free marketing in their outrage. I am not advocating that you do that, I am just illustrating a threat/weakness to the ecosystem.

However, if you were to team up with the other serious projects, and try to bring in more investors during the next bear market, it might be possible to bring and end to the kakistocratic reign of blocktrades. Even getting investors working with you, for a single purpose of usurping the governance later, to staking hbd now for the 15% returns might achieve this the next time hive drops down to a dime (just watch out for the hair cut rule). Also think of it this way: if you were to usurp the governance, your team would have full control of the dao much like blocktrades pretty much does now.

But before then, it would be handy to learn what the contributions are from the witnesses-and develop a witness notification system for your own witness node so you can be ready for a takeover. Some witnesses have mission critical projects, so best not to pee them off. Some of the people you might have peed off could be allies in a successful coup; it is best to eat crow while it is young and tender.

It takes 2 seconds to disable your witness, which should have been your immediate action upon hearing about this 8+ days ago. Also the moment I started "publicly stating my opinion" in your discord you started trying to shut it down (I quit, I'm sick of your fake bs).

If you're asking people to review their votes, maybe you should examine your own votes first ?

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  1. Shutting down is different than responding
  2. Maybe you should dig deeper to see where our main HP account does its witness voting
  3. You quit the discord after dropping a few one-way messages with no intent to discuss

It’s frankly the behavior I was talking about in the original content that started all this. Why everyone is so afraid of actual constructive criticism, I’ll never understand

You’re not one of the witnesses I’ve called out (and by the way, the original content didn’t call anyone out by name. Certain people - probably rightly - took offense to it). I actually feel you’ve done a lot for the chain and respect what you’ve done.

But are we seriously going to sit around and say that all top 20 witnesses deserve those spots? Are all 20 of them doing enough for hive to get paid and be in consensus?

Let’s be honest about that. That’s all I did. The backlash that’s come up since that video is WILD to see.

  1. The only response I remember was you trying to silence me when I gave context to your call to unvote the witnesses that called you out for failing at witnessing.

  2. Maybe you should proxy your votes to the other account instead of wasting it on disabled witnesses.

  3. I would have engaged if you had given an actual response (eg: "We'll disable our witness now, oops!") instead of just trying to shut me up. I'm sick with a fever and impatient af so I just bailed rather then get sucked into a pointless argument likely to end in a discord ban anyway.

I'm making no argument for or against the t20, and until you fix your own shit you shouldn't be either.

It’s worth watching the original content that started all this

In it, a mere “I wish some of the top 20 were doing more for hive” was said

Some have taken that to create all this drama

Drama is a waste of time. I merely have said more people - especially in leadership positions - should do more for hive.

If anyone has an argument to say that that statement is a bad one to make, then they are likely the ones being spoken about.

I had no problem with that statement, or the video. For me its purely about a failing witness missing blocks and potentially causing network instability, spending their time calling for other people to be unvoted instead of just fixing the problem people are complaining about. Everything else is irrelevant imo.

I'm more active then people think, I observe a lot without engaging. I don't need anymore drama in my life. To focus on this feels like a distraction from the actual issue everyone else is trying to discuss with you. I see the witness is disabled now so I can move on.

Nobody creates as much drama as people who claim to hate drama.

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You get upset because someone notifies your witness is malfunctioing in a public channel (which apparently you thought was some "private channel" so not even sure why this bothered you), rather than just DMing you about it. Yet you seem to feel its perfectly fine to then attack them for this in as public a way as possible. The hypocrisy here is a bit much.

Also, as far as I can see you, you make these attacks without asking anyone if your random guesses about reality are even close to accurate. Would you like it if people started making random accusations about you, then published them without even a basic check about the truth of the accusation? You're suggesting @gandalf isn't adding value to Hive? He's one of the key contributors here and works an enormous amount of hours on Hive.

Open and active discussion is fine. Accusing people publicly without even a hint of due diligence is not.

Hello can you please stop supporting @buildawhale as the account is downvoting my original content with the help of Hive power you are delegating thank you

I’m the furthest thing from upset. I’d say, I’m completely indifferent to the whole situation.

No one’s been attacked, though it seems like a simple video was made out to seem like an attack. Would recommend anyone go and listen to the actual video that started it all

Nowhere in the video was Gandalf named. I don’t think anyone was actually named in it

Instead, it called for people to be more active in governance on hive. Somehow that shook trees for certain people

The hypocrisy in all this is that a few people are acting attacked because of a video that called out “people who aren’t doing enough for hive” and didn’t actually mention anyone by name.

If saying that we need more people - especially in paid leadership positions - to step up and do more positive things to grow hive is grounds to be continuously badgered and have a whole campaign made against you (as seen here and in the aforementioned public + private channels on matter most) then that’s a whole corner issue to tackle.

p.s. the message wasn’t notifying us that the witness is down

The message was “look how incompetent they are”

If it was just “hey this is down. Worth a look” etc etc. that’s a whole other story

It’s in the screenshots on this very post

It’s the unproductive drama that I hate. Especially from leadership (top 20 witnesses). And look at what everyone is doing here. More drama. For what?

You can join Open Hive Chat and join the #witness-blocks channel and then set a ping notification for your user name to be notified of missed blocks.

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It is not my preferred way of doing it, but it's easy to setup and at least gives you bare minimum notification.

If you use FRIDAY, it also has notifications. They also have notification for stale price feeds.

Add in redundancy with a fail over script and you can eliminate downtime altogether.

There are solutions and they are not difficult or complex.

I don't think you see the irony of saying you should be top 20 when you are not even remotely doing the bare minimum to be a proper witness. I could care less about the statements about current witnesses and so on, I don't fully disagree with some of what is said. I do however take offense to expecting to be top 20 when it would put our chain at risk.

Especially from leadership (top 20 witnesses)

Witnesses are not leadership, they are merely here to do a job and keep the chain running and safe. Granted they may do other things.

I also take offense to your statement on Discord calling your community to change their witness votes because your feelings were hurt. This is disgusting and comically immature.

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This is exactly the reason why I'm all the way down in the 70s rank. :D While I do understand code, I can't for the life of me get my head around C++ which hive is developed in so I certainly can't help nor validate code directly other than asking opinions of more informed people and reading changelogs and other explanation and discissions.

A lot of new people who have become witnesses generally go out of their way to ask questions and ask what's the recommended setup and tools I should use. They'll get pointed to various price feed scrips, hive witness essentials, and other documentation and usually they get up and running quickly and run mostly flawlessly.

It's unacceptable in any degree to have a witness miss blocks for an extended period of time. Disabling a witness is the EASIEST thing you can do. It can be done on peakD, ausbit's website, via CLI, via custom scripts, via witness essentials witness watcher.

I have custom node scripts I can run with will disable all the witnesses I manage if there is ever a need I also run witness watcher on an external VM as well.

It's not difficult. it take no time at all to set up.. There is absolutely no reason what so ever that leofinance could come up with to excuse them of this negligent failure.

And this isn't the FIRST time this has happened with leofinance either.

Well I made the same mistake that these guys made... I lost somedays trying to figure out the problem and didn't deactivated the witness, I only did that after a while...lesson learned! The important is not to repeat the same mistake I guess :P

Yeah... but no. There are a few "details" that are different between these two cases:

  • You admitted that you made a mistake.
  • You say you’ve learned your lesson.
  • I don’t recall you blaming me or other witnesses for it.
  • Nor did you complain that it’s crazy you’re not in the top 20 while missing blocks at the same time.
  • Maybe it’s hard for you to believe, but you weren’t missing blocks for that long.
  • You resumed your block production a full day quicker than they even cared to stop missing blocks.

While it's not cool to miss blocks, you are not even in top50 and nobody expects you to run full blown witness infrastructure with monitoring, backups, public seed node, etc.

Someone told me before that mistakes are important to grow our expertise about something! We just need to accept them and use them as a growth factor!
These last events and this post, including the comments, will help also our community (voters) to learn better what they need to search in a witness. You guys on the top 20 are signing blocks every minute or less, while other witnesses like me are signing 1 or 2 blocks maximum a day. That's a big responsibility indeed and just because a person is cooler than the other it doesn't mean that he is ready to wear a hat signing this amount of blocks a day.

Ok, I'm not going to narrate and let you ready it and decide for yourself how you feel about it

Hey themarkymark, thanks for bringing it to our attention. Reblogged!

Can u fix the typo please?
let you ready read it

Thank you for this post Marky, and I hope to see more talk about the core of what Hive is. I think it needs to be known by everyone, and we need to have a clear narrative for the public to understand why Hive is not just another crypto, and certainly not just another social media platform.

True… but now that you know, what would you do about it?

Well I only talk about it pretty much every day, and have been putting on regular videos about it for years. That plus I’m working on onboarding a few restaurants, and a drop in centre for helping the homeless.
I personally plan to start some local meetups, where I educate people, and make plans on how to get more local adoption.

We all know Khal's style is cutting corners to get things done quickly. Which is fine for an app, but not for blockchain consensus.

I think this conversation in the chat would have been amazingly helpful to everyone if both sides didn’t let themselves get triggered.

I wish the world was nicer. Oh well. Hope we can all keep building this chain at least

Wasn’t exactly referring to you, more some of the passive aggressive remarks in the chat.

I respect both sides of this debate and people on both sides, I just think the chain would be better if more people were better at building rapport with people they disagree with. That’s all.

I’m just peeking in on this. And it’s a nice Ned meme. I think you can outdo it though.

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@bpcvoter2, sorry! You need more $WRD to use this command.

The minimum requirement is 50.0 WRD balance.

More $WRD is available from Hive-Engine or Tribaldex

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But there is no symmetry here, no "both sides". There's a witness who failed his job. There's an objective metric for this. I'm not triggered, I'm disappointed that we have to discuss such basic matter.
Whole thing should be like:
- I messed up, sorry guys.
End of story.

I wish the world was nicer.

Yeah, but the world isn’t nice - and one reason might be that the UN Security Council tries to be nice instead of doing its job. We should strive to be better than that.

Or maybe we’d all be dead if the UN Security Council wasn’t nice? Maybe if you want it to be any better, competency and the ability to stay on good terms with people you don’t agree with are both required and things go sour when you only have one?

The idea that blocks are the only job a witness has and the idea that they should also be this or that, that’s two sides. No end of story.

I think he was being overly defensive, but I think “take care of your blocks first and then we can have this discussion” could be communicated better, there’s still a discussion to be had about who deserves to be a top 20 witness, otherwise what’s the point having the ability to vote for them.

I agree that just keeping the chain running is a low bar, and I also agree that it’s the most essential part and he should probably take care of that before lecturing the rest of you.

I just wish one of you could have effectively convinced him of that so I don’t have to😒

I don’t like getting invovled in this stuff. I used to have a ton of support from whales 2018 until i made a fuss about the bidbots and rallied to change something. In the end i made my case to the chain, got little thanks for it, lost suport from some whales and had my biggest supporter chased off chain.

I’ve been homeless at hive for a while now, tried starting my own communities but the entire chain sucked at onboarding and it felt like an empty city. I didn’t have the influence or resources to make Hive something people would eant to use and I saw Leo actually solving what no else was, and they took me in.

I like what they are doing with short form and creating other income streams (for themselves and creators) and the collaborations with other crypto ecosystems. I like that they value my support thus far. I don’t really wanna be the one to piss off one of the only influential people at Hive that shows their appreciation for my presence here after 7+ years.

I have more to lose than all of you, so I wish you could have convinced him and not forced me to risk losing my support again. But I’m not a politician and I don’t just try to please my doners so I’ll try to convince him anyway, because I see that what they are building is really important for the chain and I want to encourage them to be even better.

I think that is the attitude people should come at this from, wanting to see everyone become better. It’s better for the chain and all its participants.

The witnesses need to stop your abuse as you are killing Hive why is it ok for you to do as you like?

Why do you keep downvoting my original content what is the problem 🤔

I create all my digital art from scratch I capture all photos I share and I write all my own stuff so I just do not understand why you are attacking it just doesn't make sense I did believe you was a good person

Just because a friend of mine is exposing you that has nothing to do with me

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@themarkymark inspired me to meme.
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I remember back in the day when @fyrstikken would bash whole witness circle jerk. As I see it, witnesses, have the job of securing the block chain ie: producing block, keeping it running and also promoting it. But where are we on the promotion part? The way I see it. We have a bunch of gatekeepers scaring people from joining and making the platform thrive. And no one is stopping them. Shouldn't the witnesses do something about that? Or is all they care about is just running a node and making money? This place could of been a real rival to some of the big social media websites. But as it turns out, shit always runs downhill. Our problems start at the top and just get worse. Do better.

This is the best meme I've seen all day. Thanks

It would be better if the driver had Neds hair.

Feel free to use everywhere.

hive-blockchain-GTHP.png

Some people need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions or the lack of it as in this case. Sulking and throwing dirt on those who are right is easy. Too bad it's the fastest road to nowhere. But you can't expect much from him, we knowthat.

!PIZZA

I've seen many people work out their ass to reach the top 20 witness. I can't help it but wonder, what's that special thing that makes the top 20 so special that every witness hopes to be in that list?

Does this mean that other witnesses who aren't in the first 20, don't make money? Or don't get any form of rewards?

They make significantly less than top 20 and out in the 100+ ranks probably lose money compared to costs.

Oh... So that's how it is..

Thanks for explaining this to me

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The more governance voting power that backs a witness (meaning HP of the people supporting them) the higher they rank, and the more frequently they are chosen to participate in block production. In each round of block production, 21 witnesses are scheduled: the top 20 voted witnesses and one selected from the remaining pool.

This gives the top 20 witnesses a special role, and their performance is critical for ensuring the reliability and security of Hive.

Thanks a lot for your explanation. It makes more sense now why many people are doing everything possible to be among the first 20.

👍🏻 Thanks for explaining. These things Are for many „Normies“ Like myself Not that transparent. We produce content for Hive to thrive but don’t have a deep technical insight but that would be helpful. e.g. Witness votes in this case.

How can an average Hive User know which witness is „technically capable“ and „will show up“ when their competencies are needed? Thats a very valid point you brought up I think but none that is trivial to achieve. 🤔

It’s a difficult question to answer. You really have to look around and get to know them which isn’t easy.

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Hive witnesses produce blocks, validate transactions, secure the network, and implement upgrades. They’re elected by the community to keep the blockchain running smoothly.

Very educational. I wish more convesations will be held on chain and not on discord.

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