Some Thoughts on Funding, The DHF and Fees

in #hive-110369last year

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Support Proposal 265 on PeakD
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This is a value for value post: see the explanation in the footer.


DHF

I get to use one of my favorite, somewhat obscure and slightly rude, Englishism. My proposal for funding to keep v4v.app running has been "up and down like a whore's drawers".

The proposal gives me HBD 3.125 per hour when funded. That sounds like a lot to some people or a little to others. It's HBD 75 per day and so far I've received HBD 1,478 on this proposal. When I started up first @podping and then @v4vapp I received higher amounts for the beginning as I was getting the code first deployed.

Podping

Of the money for @podping, nearly all of that stayed in the Podping account, got powered up and is used to run the system upon which some of the coolest new features in independent Podcasting operate and is used by probably around 20% of all active podcasts today (the podcasters themselves probably don't know this).

V4Vapp

This was a huge amount of work to build for the first time. It's probably the largest software project I've ever done and having thought when I started that I would hire people, I ended up changing my life around and learning to do 99% of it myself.

I had planned to be able to hand the code over to anyone but I haven't got there yet. Looking at the first code I wrote (the bit that isn't open source right now): it works remarkably reliably, but it's not good enough to hand to other people.

The Lightning side of V4V.app is probably more of a challenge than I anticipated. Lightning has not got easier to run over the last two years. In fact it may well be getting harder. I started to explain this but if anyone asks I may have to do a separate post.

Aside from moving HBD to Hive and then to BTC, most of what I get from the DHF has remained in Hive or been used to pay for things like @privex hosting and my Lightning Node. Probably my largest

Unfunded

As a result of some behind the scenes discussions (which I do believe should be happening more in public but aren't) I know some of the larger accounts have shifted votes around upvoting the return proposal mostly. This is why, despite continually picking up lots of small votes, my project is below the threshold.

There is unhappiness with the way the DHF operates and with priorities on Hive which I understand.

I'm continuing to run and develop v4v.app and I still want to add the new Patreon style system I'm planning.

Reality: Hive's not big enough

If I were to charge fees big enough to justify all the time I spend on @v4vapp, nobody would use it. Hive (and Lightning) doesn't have the scale to make this profitable. It can just about break even (though even that is a stretch) but not if you include the time I give to keep the Lightning side running.

Fee Changes

I have in the last day made changes and pushed the fees up. It is now 1.5% + 150 sats on all transactions.

I've also made a change to stop a form of what I consider to be abuse. V4V is not a bulk exchange. It is clearly meant for small transactions in and out to actually do things with Lightning. Moving large volumes of HBD to BTC is not what it is for.

If you want to do that go to Simpleswap or any other service you can find.

To counter this I've decreased the rate limit and if one particular user keeps sending maximum size transactions at the rate limit I may be forced to decline service. I'm not going to act as a bulk exit liquidity system from Hive.

lightning01.webp

Pretty stuff

In the last few days, and thanks to @ausbitbank's amazing AI Artbot (find it on discord) I've added new backgrounds to the credit card look on v4v.app. Click on the card to change the background!

Behind the scenes I'm making big changes to support the regular payment system I want to launch, but that's taking second place to other parts of my life as I have to pay attention to finances.


Value for Value

For the last few months while building @v4vapp I was generously supported by the DHF. Going forward I have a much more modest support which covers direct server costs and a little of my time.

If you appreciate the work I do on and around Hive, you can express this directly: upvoting posts on Hive is great. Also consider a direct donation (there's a Tip button on Hive or a Lightning Address) on all my posts.

Support Proposal 265 on PeakD
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Thanks for your post sir. @brianoflondon

This is incredible
I was short of words when I saw how much HBD you get per day
That's a lot
Keep it up!

Keep doing good things my friend and it will all work itself out. You had my support.

So much time and effort you are putting in daily to make this things work.

Great job you are doing here

Glad to see you have received huge amount of hbd. Sir @demotruk had started a competition but it didn't take off funds from here so they closed it. It was a good way to bring new people onto the platform.

Hey @brainoflondon I got introduced to Hive through @blockanarchist1, while telling me about it. Podping came up. I'm stoked to the kind of work you've done here. You definitely deserve more. Looking forward to the payments system, and how it'll help for an artist like me.

Is there a way to scale Hive, though, to make V4V actually profitable? or is it...doomed to forever be a barely-break-even endeavor that you're doing out of the goodness of your heart?

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To support your work, I also upvoted your post!

Check out our last posts:

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Outside of the post I want to thank you for your response, I really did not expect it anymore, when people do not respond it means that they ignore you, well that is what I think, or maybe I have something engraved in my mind since childhood, I will have to get over it, but I don't like to be ignored.
I wish you a happy weekend

Totally different topic, I think, podping was mentioned in a PeakD Sting chat with a question; thought you might be interested. It's in the PeakD community using Sting. https://chat.peakd.com/t/hive-163399/1

Screenshot_20230813_165653_Samsung Internet.jpg

Brian, first of all: I really like that new Logo for the v4v.app. Looks cool! 😎

And I have I have three questions:

Why has it become more complicated to code/build with Lightning the past two years? Not a good thing, is it?

You mentioned that some people used the v4v.app to swap large amounts of HBD into Sats/BTC. What is a large amount? Where would you put the threshold? Like 100 HBD is ok but not 1000 HBD? Just curious since I hadn’t considered this possibility and was surprised there’s obviously people who swap HBD into BTC regularly.

And last but not least: How much HP votes does your proposal 265 still need to get funded? This is really something I lack in the DHF list, a measure scala of how close a proposal is to get funded, like a percentage number.
Anyways, will ask my brother to cast his vote too, he has double the HP than me, should help at least to get it forward.

Many greetings from Germany! 👋🏻
Thomas

Lightning: it's not become more difficult as much as more expensive. The spike in BTC fees which lasted a month caused a lot of people who were messing about with Lightning nodes to lose significant funds when channels "force closed" and they paid out big fess. Those fees were often much larger than any money they'd made routing transactions.

It also made it much harder to economically run a routing node. I'm lucky in that I am actually using Lightning to make real transactions, not relying on others to transfer through my node.

Overall this meant that average fees went up (they're still very low compared to BTC main chain transactions or ETH) but they went up.

I'm about 1m HP short right now. Mostly the return proposal went up.

Ok, yeah I remember you posted this issue with Lightning channels before and then the fees issue. But like coding/building has not become more difficult then. Got it 👍🏻
Thanks for clarifying!

I haven't had to do anything much with my actual lightning interacting code for a good long time. The issue as around the manual management of which channels I have open and how to set the fees on my node so that I have sats in the right places to both receive and send out.

With the removal of a couple of options of low fee destinations, that got a bit more complex and requires more thought and planning.