HBD Hysterics

in #hive-1679223 years ago

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This post comes a little late; it's been sitting in my ideas pile since LUNA crashed to zero. The heat that's been scorching algorithmic stable coins has cooled down a bit and I don't see a lot of people freaking out about HBD like it's going to tank us to zero like UST did with LUNA. However, there still are a lot of questions we need to be asking about algo stable-coins.

The first thing we need to ask is if they are really necessary. If we are trying to piggyback off of the stability of the old debt-based system, do we really need to "decentralize" it? After all, if USD fails all the stable coins pegged to it will fail as well, right?

Depends on yield, actually.

If galloping inflation were to hit USD and it started losing 20% of its value year over year compared to other assets (other fiat would be even worse) then the 20% yield provided by something like HBD would completely negate that loss. Something to think about.

But 'decentralization' is more robust!

Is it though? How many centralized stable-coins pegged to dollars in a back have failed? How many decentralized algo-stable coins have failed? Kinda seems like the centralized versions are winning by a landslide, not only in terms of trustworthiness, but also in terms of market cap and stability and volume and overall presence (exchange listings).

What are algorithmic stable coins even good for?

When looking at something like Hive, HBD is great because it allows us to print debt and outsource that value into another derivative asset that drives growth to the entire network. In a very real sense, it's really just free money floating around. There's always going to be some amount of demand for a stable asset. Driving demand for the network's debt removes Hive from the ecosystem and pushes the price up...

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Sort of...

The problem with HBD and just the boom and bust cycles of crypto in general... is that Hive and HBD are positively correlated. We would much more prefer them to be inversely correlated. When the market is doing well and the price of Hive is going up, the demand for HBD is also going up. When the market is crashing into the mountain the demand for HBD is also crashing into the mountain. This is something that seems to happen for all stable coins, even things like Tether (which is constantly getting accused of printing money out of thin air).

Printer go brrr tangent:

Tether can't print money out of thin air. It's literally impossible. I find it extremely comical that everyone in crypto seems to understand that if you dump tokens on the market (taker orders) then the value of that token will drop. How can Bitfinex dump fake Tether on the market without the peg breaking to the downside? Duh? It's not possible.

The only question to be asked regarding Bitfinex is simple:

Once Tether (BTC/USDT) breaks to the upside and they print tokens to bring it back down to $1, do they take the Bitcoin that they bought and turn it into dollars in a bank, or do they hold the Bitcoin reserves and essentially go long on Bitcoin? See? It's not a question of if they are printing tokens, only a question of what reserves they are holding to maintain the peg. This is simple math, but 95% of people in crypto seem to completely misinterpret the situation for whatever reason (printer go brrr crypto culture perhaps).

Back to HBD

When Tether loses demand and they have to buy back their own token, it's no big deal. In fact, Bitfinex makes money on that trade, because a centralized exchange with their own token is basically an arbitrage factory. When Tether breaks to the upside, they make money. When Tether breaks to the downside, they make money again buying back their own token at a discount. It's a win win in both directions.

HBD is not so lucky.

When Hive spikes and price of HBD spikes, Hive gets destroyed to print more HBD to bring it back to the peg. We can think of this as "buying the top". The network itself is destroying tokens and turning them into HBD at peak FOMO. Then when we inevitably crash, those HBD need to be bought back by the network at the bottom. Essentially the HBD stable coin makes Hive more volatile. Higher highs and lower lows. Buying the top and selling the bottom to maintain the peg.

It's not great Dan.

I mean it's great if you're a trader. Anyone who DCA sells the tops and then DCA buys the bottoms is doing amazing. Unfortunately the vast majority of users are terrible traders and end up bleeding value because all the volatility makes us do crazy things.

Should we consider scrapping HBD?

I think not. HBD is great, and even though it makes Hive more volatile, over multiple cycles HBD will drive more value to Hive than if it didn't exist. It's also not HBD's fault that all the plebs are buying the top and selling the bottom. If we simply figure out better ways to provide liquidity to the network during times of need this volatility problem pretty much goes away.

So even though it sounds bad that the network is "buying the top and selling the bottom"... where does that value go? It goes into the pockets of people on Hive who actually provide liquidity to the network when the network needs liquidity. This is why we should stop trying to make trades based off of trying to strike it rich and should change our entire scarcity mindset into an abundance mindset.

Rather than asking when we should be buying and selling to make the most money for ourselves, we should be putting ourselves in the Hive network's shoes directly and asking if Hive wants us to sell or buy. By completely changing our mindset to an abundance mindset, we no longer care about making money on the trade. It's more about building value for Hive, which means providing elasticity to the network. As the price goes up we might sell off 5% chunks of our stack, and as the price goes down we might use that outside value to buy back in with small chunks. Ironically, this change in behavior (not caring about maximizing gains) will inevitably lead to huge gains. The network intrinsically pays users who provide value to it. That means selling on the way up and buying on the way down.

Not to sound like a broken record, but selling on the way up and buying on the way down is EXACTLY what an LP position does within an AMM market... automatically without any user intervention.

What else?

In terms of HBD, what we really need to be thinking about is if it's possible to turn the positive correlation into an inverse correlation. Let's explore this more...

When Hive number go up... HBD demand also goes up. Why? Because users will inevitably be selling Hive into HBD. That's actually what we wanted all along, for users to sell Hive when number goes up to provide the supply for this increased demand.

Okay, so now we have an HBD price of say $1.02, and we'd like to return to the peg WITHOUT CONVERSIONS, because again, the HIVE >> HBD conversion is basically like buying the top and creating more volatility at the exact time we don't want more volatility. We also can't just sell the HBD back into Hive because that does the exact same thing... creates more volatility during a time where we are trying to have less.

It stands to reason that the easiest way to bring HBD back to $1 without conversions is to sell it... into another asset that hasn't gone up. This makes sense. If we want HBD to be pegged to $1, we should probably consider selling the HBD for dollars, an asset pegged to dollars, or an asset that hasn't been overbought during this particular FOMO cycle.

The problem with all this is that HBD has lost all of it's exchange listings, and let's be real, HBD never had a good exchange listing to begin with. Luckily Polycub has the pHBD/USDC LP, which is making it a lot easier to turn the HBD into USDC. It's also not a big deal if the HBD gets sold for Hive as long as there's liquidity at the current price, and then the Hive can be immediately dumped on exchanges for stable coins or BTC or whatever. This helps both Hive and HBD remain stable during periods of extreme volatility.

Dapps and the dev fund

Businesses on Hive could also help to stabilize HBD and Hive by employing proper business strategies. For example if a business on Hive hosts a sale that requires HBD, they can get that HBD out of the noob's hands and into their own so they can dump it accordingly if HBD is overpriced or hold it if it's underpriced. The 20% yields on HBD are an amazing opportunity for businesses on Hive looking to hodl.

The dev fund is also a huge source of elasticity. If there's a lot of demand for HBD we can simply print out a bunch of HBD and dump it on the market. Sure, the stabilizer proposal already does that, but it's dumping the HBD for Hive, which is absolutely not helpful during a spike as it makes that spike even worse.

It seems to all come down to holding value outside of Hive during the good times so that when the bad times hit we have a big bag to pump back into the network. It all comes back to buy-low-sell-high mechanics.

Well how the hell does fiat stay so stable?

That's the question isn't it? If crypto networks can begin to copy the strategies that central banks employ to create this kind of stability, we'll no longer even need the stable-coins to begin with. I think the ultimate goal is for the main governance token to be semi-stable and for the stable-coin to be very stable. What we have now is an extremely volatile governance coin and a semi-stable stable coin. Definitely needs improvement.

The FED's main tool is manipulating interest rates.

Already, this is super interesting... because crypto can manipulate rates that runs circles around legacy central banks. We can manipulate inflation into any area we choose, should it be the dev fund, the reward pool, AMM pools, or whatever else. The programmable nature of crypto means that it will inevitably surpass legacy banks be exponential margins. We just aren't there yet because crypto is so tiny and new and needs more infrastructure and adoption.

At the same time, the interest rates that the debt-based fiat system employs are the exact opposite of crypto (which isn't debt). The interest rates at the FED are designed to extract value away from entities that take out loans... with crypto it's completely backwards, where our interest rates are a reward (asset) rather than a liability. This is why many things in crypto are exactly the opposite as the legacy system, and also why professional economists can't wrap their head around the new system (because it's completely opposite from what they know).

conclusion

Algo stable coins need a lot of work, but they are worth it. Derivative assets have value, especially when those derivative assets provide stability within a wholly unstable market. The trick is setting them up so that the governance token they are connected to doesn't make the main token even more unstable.

Ideally we need to provide supply when demand is high and reduce supply when demand is low. Manipulating demand itself is a fool's errand, and swings in huge waves of FOMO/FUD boom/bust cycles. Crypto has the tools to evolve into something exponentially better than the legacy system, but we simply don't have the infrastructure to compete yet. Until then, we are dependent on the system that we hope to one day overthrow.

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Such a great source of information here. Thanks for that!
Learned a bit more today 😎

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It is not that easy unless you centralize the HBD stabilization mechanism, but a semi-centralized mechanism might be a lethal injection, because during volatile times price control from both sides supposed to be quite a nut cracking job.

Another solution can be a soft-pegged stable coin like MakerDAO's DAI.

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Agreed

Having the DHF DAO pay out in a somewhat stable token is absolutely essential for bringing in external talent and paying for all the dev stuff like software licenses and servers that is inevitably priced in USD.

Heck even my cloud based lightning server was priced in USD even if I did pay for it in sats (ouch now I think about it). But the reality is I'm usually trading HBD into Hive straight to BTC right now to keep the liquidity on my @v4vapp system.

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did you think of creating a proposal which you could use to add more liquidity?

I think this was the main reason it was created in the first place .... so the dao can pay for developers

There was no Hive (or Steem) DAO when HBD (SBD) was created. The Steem white paper explains why SBD was created, as does the Steemit evil plan post.

https://peakd.com/steem/@dan/steemit-s-evil-plan-for-cryptocurrency-world-domination

TLDR: Steemit was supposed to become a marketplace with social media. The marketplace aspect of the site never really developed in reality.

Damn! I miss that Dan. Very much sounds like @edicted.

Can the marketplace really be the missing piece of this awesome tech?

Thanks for linking that post

“ If galloping inflation were to hit USD and it started losing 20% of its value year over year compared to other assets (other fiat would be even worse) then the 20% yield provided by something like HBD would completely negate that loss. Something to think about.“!

The CPI is a underestimated rigged stat!
It is loosing 20% a year now…

So the price of everything is doubling every four years?
Yeah but it's not though.
Also this "inflation" has nothing to do with "printing money".
This is supply chain deflation.

I didn’t say that
I said this past year it’s 20%
I would say Jan 1st 2021 - Jan 1st 2023
40% across the board yes. Not implying it’s been like that the past 4 years or next four.

Printing money is literally inflating the money supply. Of course it’s a huge factor. Do you really believe the printing 40% of the current money supply the last 33 months has nothing to do with rising prices?

Great information. I agree that stable coins are needed and a great asset. Thanks for sharing.

Still can't believe that creating a HIVE/HBD AMM pool internally hasn't got more traction.

You're doing god's work keeping the concept front and centre!

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Hm yeah it kinda blows my mind.
DEFI has shown us the way and the top brass on Hive just aren't interested.
At this point it feels like a conflict of interest with the stabilizer.

Very interesting article. I don't really know how it all works and I believe most HIVE users are in the same boat. Since we don't have a single clue about how these mechanisms work, it's only natural that we worry about HBD after the shit has hit the fan so hard in LUNA/UST.

The projects in Fantom also appear to be broken. Their "stable" coins also crashed like 60% or so. Wave also had problems.

So, we all just hope that Hive doesn't follow that storm...

The stable coin story will not end well. Unfortunately that includes HBD in my humble opinion.

I think the reason for the demand for HBD to go down when Hive falls, is that people sell the HBD, which is pegged, to buy Hive at the cheap price and later when Hive recovers, sell the Hive to buy more HBD.

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Awesome work and I think that hbd is here to stay and something that we have invested in our own stability which has proven itself against the test of this crazy recent situation.

Excellent article and really excellent that so many of us have but hbd into savings just before all of this happened which really helped the stability of our coin.

Excellent post excellent thoughts and excellent analysis thank you very much for your hard work today. Personally I value this knowledge and your opinion more than gold.

Here to stay maybe
But in my humble opinion it won’t go well as liquidity clearly isn’t done being sucked out and we have more pain to go all around ( crypto snd stocks). We shall see

Personally I don't think that this price drop is going to last as long as everybody says or if he is horrible as everybody saying.

If a bunch of really smart people are saying that they are buying more at a lower price...

So much FUD around all the Stables, and I certainly haven't researched them all, but here is what Lyn Alden predicted for UST 2 months before the melt down.

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She wasn't the only one. HBD is only.. Stablish, but I think that is good. I was not really for the pegging activities but I think I was wrong. Also, we have a good system of safety nets in place prior to HBD pulling Hive down too far.

I certain don't see the masses adopting it yet, but it's great to see it being tested at different price levels.

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Wow. Okay who is Lyn Alden 🤔

Lol yeah Stablish is the word

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She's in investing, came from the mainstream, but also has a fairly realistic, not perfect view of crypto.

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Ah thanks I’ve found her Twitter.

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The problem HBD has is dynamic inflation. At 1$ Hive: 1HBD = 1Hive At 0,10$ its 10 hive.

So in a worst-case scenario, it can ( even with a haircut) add much inflation without adding buy pressure to get the stake.

Like a short contract against the platform.

So the mechanic is on-scale retarded. Same with 10$ to 1$.

And every conversion increases the Total MC that allows for the next step more conversations.

On a big scale, it would be worthy to game it.

The 3 day waiting period and the "black swan" protection that Hive will stop printing HBD is the debt becomes too high, there is talk of upping the limit, but I hope they do it slowly.

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I don’t think we do. If we see a real crazy crash that doesn’t rebound quickly it will pull it down much longer.

Your point of legacy economists (and almost everyone else for that matter) not being able to wrap their heads around the difference between crypto and fiat systems is spot on. The whole interest rate mechanism, and thus the entire economic system, is focused on the cost of fiat. The interest rate charged by the central banks/financial system.
In my understanding, crypto systems are equity based. Not debt based. The return generated (via use cases etc) should thus be the main value driver.

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