S:E:X

in #hive-1092888 months ago

Once, a long time ago, I was sitting outside the kindergarten with a mum and talking to her. She told me that her then four-year-old son wanted to know how children come into the world and she told him. He replied: "Can I watch the two of you make another child?"

This is part of a comment exchange I just had. Which led me to write the following text.

Modernity and what peoples confuse

when they compare past times with modern times, is from my point of view an increasingly missing out on biological reality.

little_e.jpg
A modern baby girl with a toy.

The modern individual thinks of himself as educated,

sophisticated and ahead of the pre-modern human being.

Yet it is safe to say that that the modern individual knows a lot in theory but has to put up with little to nothing in practice with regards to his sex. Indeed, the modern person is ahead in all areas imaginable compared to his pre-modern ancestor. But one.

Which is sex.

In matters of sex the modern individual is very much lacking and in turmoil with his own biology for very comprehensible reasons.

In pre-modern eras children used to observe their relatives, adults and older than them children around them, in sexual and sex related activities. (Except in times that were once considered modern but then fell - as they say of the Roman Empire).

Where did they observe and experience that?

  • Kids witnessed their parents having sex with each other. Either through sound or sight or both. Families sleeping all in one room made that possible. So, by natural occurrence the very act of sexual intercourse was of nobodies concern.

  • Kids witnessed their mothers giving birth in their very homes.

  • Kids witnessed their peoples in courting each other through certain rituals and traditions. The little ones copied the older ones in how to dance, how to approach, how to perform on the stage of making oneself attractive for the other sex.

  • Kids perceived death in their families and were integrated into rituals of funerals and such.

  • Kids perceived their relatives growing older, both in terms of siblings but also grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and so on. They perceived long term relationships in these circles.

All this happened because the human being was pre-modern.

Now, present folks tend to think that it was "religion and an oppressive belief system"

which banned those very activities from the eyes of children.
I object that notion.

I would say that it was technological progress and increasing wealth and prosperity which I see as a great influential factor for people becoming more prude, private and - as a result - ashamed of their sexuality, since they stopped practicing it in the open. If you lose a natural habit, hardly anything about it stays natural.

People began to sleep in separated rooms

because they could afford in doing so. Parents began to place their children in another than their bed room. Which was a matter of having the luxury in doing so. This happened first in well-off households, it happened earlier in city environments than in rural ones and villages.

Progress led to the fact that women no longer gave birth to babies in front of their families but more and more left that very familiar sphere and gave birth in clinics. Which obviously results in the fact that children who were born earlier were not able to witness birth, or feel the atmosphere in a household where a mother is about to labor a baby.

Progress led to the fact that work and life had been separated to such a huge degree

that this in itself became normality. This normality is though of such nature, that kids cannot perceive their elders - parents, siblings, relatives - when doing sexual related things. Like courtship activities.

Which is the most important thing to witness for a child in order to become a confident man or woman. Right next to it are all activities which are work related.

In summary,

what we moderns have achieved, next to the really great and wonderful things, is this: We deprived our young of the opportunity to observe, copy and paste. To exaggerate, we made children blind, deaf and dumb to sex and also to work.

Seen from that angle, religious prudery (which is named often in one go with bigotry) may have been the result of technology. But religion may not be the original cause of becoming sexually shy. While, of course, it had its effects in religious circles.

I would say that technological advancement and huge industrial inventions altered the lives of us human creatures so much so that we tend to forget it, since it is so normal to live how we moderns live.

All in all, we are great at our coping mechanisms and also great problem solvers when dealing with technology. On the other hand, we are very susceptible to emotional appeals because - once again - we have the time and the luxury to roam around mentally.

Now, the intellectual realm has little to offer in terms of witnessing, adapting and copying what those families into which everyone is being born, can provide in principle. Since intellect provides very little in comparison to pre modernity in sexual matters, the human being has resided and retreated into the realm of the screen.

Because, of course, humans want to see others having sex with each other, don't they?

Not, because we are perverts but more like apes in that regard. Nothing really offensive.

The scripts of screen play actually live a lot from pre-modern performances. But to even get to know those pre-modern rituals, activities and convictions, the modern person is in dire need to find them. So that he can showcase an interesting and appealing drama or comedy, for example.

But where to get information from?

Since modern people deprived themselves from their very culture of

  • parents having open sex
  • mothers giving open birth
  • adults giving open rituals in courting each other
  • adults giving open lessons in work activity

we now can observe the very results of the lack of open practice - within a coherent community - of that kind.

I believe that religion is misjudged and used as a scapegoat for many things that modern man fails to recognise.

But it is precisely religious and spiritual practices and traditions that have kept people sane and given them stability. Whereas the modern, non-religious, non-openly practising human being does the most important things in his life in secret or apart from home: sexual intercourse, birth and death.

[What is really phenomenal then, is that the modern individual likes to call religion collectively as the one to be blamed for misery. Strange, no?]

All the more reason for him to want to see it on the screen. He wants to see death, he wants to see life, he wants to see sex. But in the extreme exaggeration of what happens on screen, oddly so, it can never be enough.

Of course not, because away from the screen, people are starving sexually and spiritually. The compensation for this lack is pornography, prostitution and now teenagers wanting to get rid of puberty. If you don't let children use their senses, you get adults who are sensory deprived.

It is downright creepy-crawly

that we modern people are so willing to expose our children to an environment where they are deprived of their senses.
In schools, nothing is produced to bring back home, nothing is made for everyday use, no naturally unfolding activities take place there.

To exaggerate, modern man seems to be subject to a kind of mental illness in this respect, according to which he really does not realise at all how little is offered to children in such environments stripped of all usefulness and sexuality. To weave in yet another exaggeration, one could wickedly say that modern man is unwittingly sacrificing the little ones.

One other result of this development, for example, is the devouring mother. Another is the absent father and the third - most recent - is the sex confused teen.

But on that, I maybe will talk in a different posting.

Is all hope useless? I would not say so.


picture source: my own.

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it only adds to the confusion that kids are now schooled in so-called "sexual matters" by a government agenda that is worldwide, completely ignores and negates the energetic and biological qualities of men and women, tosses it all into a tumbler and then markets that as progress and tolerance. only parents should decide how when and what their children should learn in this regard.

it is dangerous indoctrination at a fragile age (not when the kid's natural question comes up) while the real quality of initiation (meaning introducing ideas and concepts) can and should only come by those we have closest ties with (our family), rather than public school systems who teach an outright life-adversarial curriculum.

i feel also that in that modernity we have all but lost the capacity to differentiate, we mix up concepts and ideas all the time. everything has been watered down and confused so it's nearly impossible to see actuality any longer. to me what is taught in many western schools today is way more questionable than allowing a child to witness sex between his parents after it has clearly communicated that interest in learning about it. not before. not when it turns 3 (or whenever kindergarten deems it right). and not in the life-affronting way these concepts are introduced today in public.

saying 'kids should probably witness sex first and only between their parents' will sound like modern blasphemy to people, outright unacceptable. but then preschoolers are taught about the most unnatural sex practices against their (and their parents) will and that then is somehow tolerant and modern. or kids get on the inernet and see the most horrendous videos and try that with their peers thinking that is the way adults "do that sort of thing".

it really is quite remarkable what a minefield sexuality is today, and yet: how audacious some trends exist and persist that directly attack the most vulnerable members of society constantly without much public outcry.

Hey, thank you for visiting my blog :)

Yes, the theorist's first mistake is to teach even more theory. He thinks that a government programme in schools is capable of teaching children about sexuality. When only living experience of authentic action in a coherent setting is capable of teaching children about it. No drag queens or read-aloud teachers who are proud that you have to guess their sex.

only parents should decide how when and what their children should learn in this regard.

That's right. But parents need the help of the wider circle of relatives and other adults who are not eager to teach and preach but who live as relaxed adults, giving natural examples.

saying 'kids should probably witness sex first and only between their parents' will sound like modern blasphemy to people, outright unacceptable.

:D LoL, you are probably right. Since it is no practice any more and families don't share one room, one cannot make it happen in an artificial way, it has to be organic or nothing else. It would be odd if mom and dad would allow their toddler witnessing them making love on purpose. It has to happen without purpose.

Now, I can say that this one factor can be compensated if the others are vibrant and anchored in the culture. I was raised in a village where I was attending weddings, church gatherings, funerals, rituals of how to attract the opposite sex and serene traditions in which benevolent mockery of the still unmarried singles were taking place. It was not that I was aware of all those things, but just sucked them up. The odds when puberty hit, were neither in too much focus, nor totally ignored. It was somewhat balanced - though I wished in retrospect, having been even more familiarized into womanhood by the time I started to bleed.

Actually, I myself supported, without really thinking deeply into it, a feminist position. Until I became a mother. I parroted all the slogans and whatnot and must admit that my own role modeling was not the best one. Now I am doing my best to repair what mistakes I have made.

attack the most vulnerable members of society constantly without much public outcry.

I'd say the outcry is there. When I talk to peoples on the street or sniff the atmosphere where I go, conservative notions can be heard. In the Internet, there are many broadcasters picking up on that topic.

If conservative traditions are not revived or being established again, I would not know where kids can witness those. I think we have to strengthen the positive qualities of long term relations, marriage and family planning and have to make it attractive and fun. To be proud of and to get inspiration from.

yeah more and more people are rightly mad about the encroachment on the youngest but then there are many people who simply take it as 'modernity', in other words they will accept anything that is fashionable.

well, that was super interesting, thanks for sharing all those thoughts. i will be pondering this more

blessings to you <3

many people who simply take it as 'modernity', in other words they will accept anything that is fashionable.

Most likely. That is why one hates it to play the bad cop, since you know that's gonna happen.
Now, I admit that society let me play the hedonistic chick for quite a long time. And that I now have to pay that back in becoming the conservative spoil sport who "suddenly" changes her course (not so sudden, actually, but you know what I mean).

My man uses to say that "if you are a Hippy by twenty-two, that's great. If you remain being one with fifty-six, that's ridiculous." (And you can be justifiably mocked :D)

Be blessed, as well :)

Your posts are like a mine field that can explode at any moment. I think that one has to consider the great variety of cultural sexual norms and behaviors across space and time. Some cultures are or have been more permissive than others in certain sexual matters but not in others. Engaging in sex and dealing with the consequences that go along with it is a life altering decision, especially for young ones. In western culture, we have decided to extend childhood by delaying sexual maturation (at least in theory). As you said, technology influences what we see and hear, so we're charting new territory as far as sexual development is concerned.

... so we're charting new territory as far as sexual development is concerned.

I find extending childhood extremely problematic. To give you the chain of my thoughts: When you raise kids by the practice that everything else but biology comes first, you end up with adults who are at high risk to stay in an infantile state of mind, since they were put in the situation to avoid the responsibility to lead a household, to manage finances or the numerous other tasks like taking care of other family members.

The extended childhood leads easily to a false sense of entitlement and to adults who then, well over their thirties and forties, still expect their parents/or government to take care of their needs (and demands).

... I would not call it "new territory" though, but a territory in danger of becoming too narrow and closed up. One, which will be avoided on top of what we already got, if you allow children and teens to not only delay puberty but make it impossible through puberty blockers and irreversible surgery. And to take only their own word for it.

Let me ask you a question: When you were a kid and your parents said "no" to one of your whimsical desires, how do you judge it from your present perspective?
My question of course implies that the desires of the pre-pubescent are all but mature, since the maturity to become aware of ones self centered desires, is to undergo puberty in full. So that at the end of that painful process you built up enough self esteem according to your man- or womanhood. The brain of the child and teenager is not fully developed, either. Would you give them the responsibility to decide what "social gender" they want to be? Adults, who think that way, are themselves stuck in immaturity, I suppose.

... I think I might know your overall position, please correct me if I am wrong. My man (who you resemble in my mind), has the attitude to see the great picture and to have trust that things will balance them out. Still, you need something/someone to balance those things. While he is often enough right, he often enough is wrong in the detail (same counts vice versa). To spare the intimacies ;)

I find extending childhood extremely problematic.

To delve a bit further on this, I am talking about a phenomenon that has been observed in human and non-human species. It is called Neoteny. This is a biological concept that refers to the retention of juvenile characteristics by mature individuals such as floppy ears in dogs and curly tails in pigs. At the behavioral level, it appears that when the environment becomes too complex, animals delay adulthood by extending the "play" period of infancy. This allows the species to adapt to the complexities of the new environment. Physiological neoteny is also seen human (large head, flatter face, small arms, and slow development), and I think that we can make a good case that retention of juvenile characteristics extends to the psychological-behavioral domain. We now live in a technologically complex environment, and it is therefore necessary to retain juvenile characteristics to be able to adapt to it. So, extending childhood appears to be currently the evolutionarily adaptable thing to do. This is what I mean by extending childhood.

Damn, I lost all the contents of the second part of my comment. Meh. Don't know if I will be able to formulate that again. Will see.

The fascination with changing people, genetically, surgically and psychologically, is a phenomenon that has been around for a long time. I don't approve of any of these three methods and clearly don't subscribe to them. As far as a change in mentality occurs gradually and I hardly notice it, so be it. That is the way of things. But I don't give much credence to the doomsday scenarios, nor do I believe the vaunted progress. In my opinion, both are exaggerated.

That's why our interests here are divergent and, just as you can't inspire me much for neoteny, I can't inspire you for traditional lifestyles.

I split my response into two comments (for it hat gotten longer than I expected).

Cheers and greetings!

just as you can't inspire me much for neoteny

It's too late. You already show signs of neoteny. This blockchain network is a part of the new complexity of the Web3 environment. As it is with new tech, it's mostly used by younger people, but we also see some older users playing around with this new blockchain technology. By using this technology, those older Hive users are behaving as if they're young and are therefore extending their juvenile stage. So those of us Hivers who are over 25 are showing signs of neoteny- rejuvenation. You see, neoteny is biological reality, it happens whether you agree with it or not. So welcome aboard, @erh.germany! 😎

Engaging in sex and dealing with the consequences that go along with it is a life altering decision, especially for young ones.

Yeah, while that is the case, it need not sound like prison or a scary thing to face, for example. If you mean pregnancy and parenthood with long term consequences?

Your posts are like a mine field that can explode at any moment.

:D LoL. Why would you think that?

I think that one has to consider the great variety of cultural sexual norms and behaviors across space and time.

Let me consider. I do not believe that pre-modern man thought primarily in theory about his sexuality and would boldly claim that pre-modern people had certain practices in common with regard to the manhood and womanhood of their adolescents. These in turn, I would agree, differed significantly from one another, which I attribute to factors such as climatic and geological conditions, i.e. the localities to which people were confined.

Mountain peoples had different rituals to coastal peoples, nomads different to sedentary peoples, which I consider to be the greatest distinction in the lives of pre-modern people, since that was also their economies. Accordingly, their cultures formed around their living conditions. Some may have been more permissive than others, and again I see the climate as a major factor in this, not exclusively of course. In the tropics, nudity is normal, but not in cold climates, for example. Certain practices had to do with hygiene and/or which plants and animals people mainly came into contact with (though they may have attributed it to their Gods, as well). Where people lived in border areas with other foreigners, they influenced each other and so on.

Mountain peoples had different rituals to coastal peoples, nomads different to sedentary peoples, which I consider to be the greatest distinction in the lives of pre-modern people, since that was also their economies.

I think that you allude to something that is very interesting. What exactly do we know about how different cultures now and in the past arranged their sexual systems?

In our current western cultures, monogamy is the rule. A child growing up in such an environment will be exposed to certain acceptable behaviors in regard to interaction between the sexes. In other cultures where polygamy is the rule, a man takes on multiple wives. Children raised in such a home will be exposed to behaviors not seen in a monogamous culture. Melvyn Goldstein describes still another practice that while less common it still persists: polyandry.

In the marriage system developed by some Tibetan people, two or more brothers take on a single wife. It used to be the parents who arranged the marriage but over time, it changed to this system of fraternal polyandry. All the brothers participate as providers and sexual partners to the wife. Children under such a system of polyandry experience a different reality than those in monogamous systems. For instance, the very young brothers do not participate in the marriage until they reach their mid-teens. The older brother is usually the one who has direct access to sexual congress with the wife, but all brothers have the opportunity to sleep with her. Such an arrangement creates a unique environment in which these children mature and develop.

This example of Tibetan polyandry is one of many marriage systems that anthropologists have looked at across various cultures in time and place. So, this is what I mean about taking into account the social norms and customs across the globe and history. To be able to create a theory of how sexual development is occurring now in modern times, we need to be able to put it in the context of what we actually know based on grounded research.

For me, broadly speaking, I think that technology is now playing a key role in our sexual development. How exactly? It's difficult to say, but it is a topic that arouses much curiosity in me. ;)

Resource:

Melvyn Goldstein. 1987. When Brothers Share a Wife

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Your thesis is well conceived and presented here. I myself was raised in the way you discuss, and also immersed in wilderness, where the fecundity and verdance of life remained in full vigor. As a result of my dissatisfaction with the 'normal' impact of technological advance and prosperity on families, when I began my own family I did things differently. I was unwilling to put my infant sons in cribs, where their need to be nurtured at all times, which infants are unable to do without, is unmet, causing them distress. Further, because they require frequent attention at all hours, when they were in another room they were required to be distressed enough to raise a ruckus that alerted us. Then we had to arise and go to their aid. None of this was necessary when they slept in our bed with us. When they needed succor, it was directly at hand. We didn't need to get up, get dressed, and get busy when they only needed to roll over and nurse.

I think this was not only good for my kids, it was good for their parents, who spent a lot less time losing sleep and cranky.

Neither did I sentence my kids to day prison with all the other kids. While there was some social deprivation due to them being homeschooled on a compound innawoods, I did make nominal efforts to ensure their social circle was not inadequate, and in fact my kids were very involved in extracurricular groups and clubs outside of the formal incarceration known as public school. Indeed, after my divorce and becoming their sole legal parent, I had to bring them to work with me as a single, working father unwilling to let others raise my kids. I taught them how to do math by putting tape measures in their hands which caused them to need to understand how to simplify, add, subtract, multiply, and divide fractions in the imperial system (which was much better for the purpose than the metric system, because the metric system is too easy).

Today they remain better men than I, and I hope my sincere efforts to ensure their natural needs and abilities were met and encouraged has enabled them to flourish and lead the best lives possible to them in the world we are in. Despite being homeschooled and autodidacts, they are successful professionals, much admired by their peers today. I can claim no part of their success, but can only hope I did not hold them back while raising them.

Thanks!

Thank you so much to give some personal details on how you raised your sons. I appreciate these anecdotes out of real life.
You have made many sensible decisions that were, are and will benefit your offspring, more than I can say for myself, that's for sure.

You pictured the ridiculousness all too well, situations in which young parents can bring themselves when having a new born. To let them sleep right next to you is for a new born the easiest, most relaxed and humane practice. (I have a very sad story in that regard, but won't speak about it here).

Neither did I sentence my kids to day prison with all the other kids.

Here, nobody near or far ever thought that way. Neither did I. In Germany you have to bend the law and make yourself an exemption in order to home school. It's otherwise compulsory. I will never get to know, neither will my son, how it would have been without public school life.

Very unusual to hear about a father who single raises his kids, since you are my age, or older. Does the mother still live and how does she perceive her adult sons today? I congratulate you on the successes sincerely. So good to hear.

Why do you say that you cannot claim a part of the positive sides of their lives? Or do you say it's up to them and the extended family and society to judge that? Which also would not be false. If you hear mostly compliments, you can attribute at least one part to yourself, I guess. If your kids don't avoid you, if they regularly contact you but not too often, you probably can take that as a compliment for yourself as a father.

Thanks again for giving your comment.

Their mother still lives, and I have endeavored to ensure my sons know both the parents God or gods gave them, and since they were very young they don't remember being shot at by their mother's family or anything about the divorce and custody decree, so they have great love and affection for their mother.

I have concluded from my own life that I was not hammered out of the events of my life, but am who I am despite them. While our experiences teach us, they do not make us who we are, and my sons merit their own success which they have themselves created. While homeschooling gave them many advantages over their peers, it didn't make their persons, which they are by God or gods' graces. My own father, when I pressed him on the matter of investment in my upbringing in early adolescence said 'You have food in your belly, a shirt on your back, and a roof over your head. My job is done.' I found this inadequate for my role as a father, yet my own constant investment in the upbringing of my sons didn't make them who they are any more than my own father's lack of it did me. Eventually I have come to realize my father was right, although he shortchanged himself by not enjoying the many teaching moments father's have opportunities to when rearing their spawn.

Being a father has defined me, and while no father is without regrets, I am proud of nothing as much as I am being a father.

While our experiences teach us, they do not make us who we are, and my sons merit their own success which they have themselves created.

I wouldn't disagree with that. It would be too much vanity to claim the sons' success as your complete personal achievement. What I mean, rather, is that you gave them a solid foundation because you acted according to your convictions, which is enough in and of itself because you seemed sure of their positive influences at the time and therefore don't plague yourself with remorse or guilt.

In the same way, children have nothing they wish to hold against their father or mother, and why should they.

I think as a parent you can make all kinds of mistakes and errors as long as your children know where they stand with you. And they had the experience of a stable home in their childhood. In other words, parents who don't just disappear, who are unpredictable and ambivalent. Or, like your dad so clearly expressed.

yet my own constant investment in the upbringing of my sons didn't make them who they are any more than my own father's lack of it did me.

Right. I find this to be an intelligent insight. There is under- and there is over-investment, but there is investment, after all.
If an adolescent complains of either or, the parent has to give the correct answer, according to his worldview and not the view of the young. Since the young cannot have the exact same view, for they lack the experience of life lived in years. Indeed, the young one expects his parent to answer correct.

Children often have the fantasy of their parents apologizing for their misdeeds. I think this is a psychological error. I now know that I never wanted my mom to apologize in front of me (even though I had this illusion) but to stand firm in front of us kids accusations. I needed her to be strong despite our constant blaming her. And she was. She did not whine, she did not suffer in front of us, even though we really gave her a hard core time. She was - of course - more intelligent than we were in that respect. Because, after all, what should that have changed, after things already had happened in the past.

I am therefore very glad that she spared me the sight of a mother crying and begging piteously for forgiveness, leaving her and my own dignity unharmed.

I think that it is rather one of the very problematic experiences of children who see a father or mother rolling in the dust in front of them because of their offences. Since the wish for it is a rather immature one and one not deeply reflected upon, it can only come from children who avoid self knowledge.

he shortchanged himself by not enjoying the many teaching moments father's have opportunities to when rearing their spawn.

An excellent analysis. He has invested less, but also experienced fewer investment-rich moments of parenthood. To argue about one or the other is luxury.