HOW TO IMPROVE ENGAGMENT ON HIVE

nonsowrites in #hive-167922 • last year

One of my majority critiques against Hive's tokenemics. It does not incentivise content consumption which is critical to the health of any social network (Yes, I know Hive is more than just a social dapp). The Hive creators' economy is centred around stakeholders and creators. Large stakeholders are incentivised to curate (they earn the curator's rewards), while the creator earns the author's reward, but there is nothing designated for the consumers of these contents.

Now you can argue that engagers earn author rewards from upvotes on Hive but it is not as beneficial as creating long-form content. Most quality comments are overlooked while good long-from content gets curated. So you have a scenario where most people would rather make long-form content than engage with other creators. The problem with this framework is that most people aren't good content creators and have no business creating content. Any attempt at it results in low-quality content which are not consumption-worthy and this type of content makes up 95% of the content on Hive.

Hive needs to review its rewards system. What it currently has isn't working and is not sustainable in the long run. I understand why changing the reward system can be challenging. We currently have a system that is good for creators and stakeholders, so there might be some pushback if change is proposed. However, I expected different dapp/communities to come back up with their unique tokenomics which can serve as a reference for future change. Unfortunately, these dapps follow the Hive script and to be fair to them, I don't think there is much they can do about it.

Hive needs to be centred around engagement (not stake) to thrive. One way we can encourage engagement is by rewarding engagement a lot more. Engaging with other people's content should be as lucrative as creating posts and earning authors rewards. This way those who do not have any business creating content can focus on providing meaningful feedback.

For instance, on X, one can get monetised by just being a reply to other people's posts. There is a popular account on X by the handle Dave the Reply Guy and he earned $400 just replying to content. This is enough motivation to create meaningful comments if creating content is not your forte.

HOW TO ENCOURAGE ENGAGEMENT ON HIVE

One way Hive can improve engagement on Hive is by actively curating comments on Hive. This simply means having a group of curators who search and reward decent comments the same way we curate content. There are a handful of powerful curation groups that can implement this idea and I believe it will improve engagement on hive.

Hive can also bring back the engagement league and allocate part of hive inflation to weekly/monthly top engagers, and it should be close to the amount the average person earns here for posting weekly/monthly. This would be another strong way to gamify and incentivise engagement on the blockchain.

In addition, curators can prioritize posts with engagement. The number of comments on a post will determine its earning threshold and limit. For instance, a post with one comment cannot earn more than $5. This will push creators to create better content and share it on Web 2, which brings more eyeballs to Hive.

CONCLUSION

By simply tweaking our reward system, we can improve the social experience on Hive. My ideas might not be the most sophisticated way of increasing engagement on Hive but I still believe it is a discussion worth having. The social media space is changing drastically and the hive ecosystem needs to review its reward system to better suit current trends and realities.

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last year in #hive-167922 by nonsowrites

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hivebuzz last year

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acesontop last year

Engagement should not come from incentives, charts ranks, or anything like that, it should happen naturally and spontaneously just like, talking, writting texts or blogging does. Do you need any incentive to text a relative of yours or anyone close to you?

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nonsowrites last year

Engagement should come naturally while every other thing on the hive blockchain is incentivized? How has that worked out for the last 7 years on Hive?

There is no such thing as natural natural engagement, especially on a platform where content is not curated to users' preferences.

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cryptoandcoffee last year

If you are commenting on a post expecting an upvote that is the wrong attitude to have. Good comments are normally rewarded by the post author if it is related to the post showing the commenter has read the post. If you read the majority of comments don't qualify for an upvote as 90% of the time they have not read the post and are trying their luck. I get frustrated reading comments knowing full well the person has not read the article and they will not be rewarded.

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nonsowrites last year

If you are commenting on a post expecting an upvote that is the wrong attitude to have

Would you say the same about creating long-form content? 95% of the posts here are not read (and are written not for altruistic reasons but to earn) which makes for a poor user experience. So if we can use incentives (it might not even be upvote) to prompt people to not only engage but create engaging content people in this demographic will read and enjoy, I honestly do not see anything wrong with first.

First, hive doesn't have the user based to be strict on things like this. There are barely a thousand active users who hardly engage, and that's mainly due to the poor content quality and discovery. Engagement can be a value to improve content quality on hive.

My argument isn't about what people should or shouldn't do because they are barely doing it anyway and this is no moral class. People are greedy and are only after their interests. The only way to move forward is by aligning the interests of the platforms, stakeholders, creators and users. Hence my post.

Also when I speak about hive I am referring mostly to dapps like ecency and leofinance. They need to step up and look beyond the hive reward pool (which is not much of a huge incentive anymore as most web2 platforms are bringing down the barriers for monetisation). They need to get their users active and monetize their activities so they can function independently.

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cryptoandcoffee last year

The problem with what you are saying is Hive holds the value and most of the tribes have been plundered by milkers. the stakeholders are the ones who are adding value to Hive through holding their stake. I have a following and people I follow and I do read posts and so do they as that is the enjoyable part of Hive. the problem with monetizing the communities through incentives what value will be held by the users if they are selling what they earn weekly? I know I support users who stake and will continue to do so accordingly. The problem is when users have no stake as the ability to grow is now diminished and why stake is the most important factor here. If Hive had a user base of 1 million next year engagement levels would be up but the earning ability would be down due to the rarity of earning Hive as the reward pool is constant. Stake is the most important factor on Hive as this supports every user whether they comment or post.

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nonsowrites last year

The problem with what you are saying is Hive holds the value and most of the tribes have been plundered by milkers

Statements like this are the reasons many of the best creators have left over time because they are been addressed as Milkers when in fact (based on the stats) the larger stakeholders are the biggest milkers.

The problem with the reward system as I have mentioned is that it is giving more than it receives. There is no social app set up this way. You paying 5-50 dollars to a post that has less than 5 views and 2 comments, who does that? Do you think people will see such opportunities and not capitalise on them? Anyways, most people are fine with it, what do I know.

The stakeholders are the ones who are adding value to Hive through holding their stake.

Why are we then giving out tokens to creators? What's the point? We can simply turn Hive into a defi platform and scrap content creation.

the problem with monetizing the communities through incentives what value will be held by the users if they are selling what they earn weekly?

I say none. Value should come from outside in form of ads, api fees to network, subscription, resource create purchase etc and not on creators holding tokens. I dare say if this blockchain was ran well you wouldn't want people staking hive because it reduces your share/power in the ecosystem which would come with a lot of benefits.

If Hive had a user base of 1 million next year engagement levels would be up but the earning ability would be down due to the rarity of earning Hive as the reward pool is constant. Stake is the most important factor on Hive as this supports every user whether they comment or post.

I do get your point. The issue is if this really worked hive would be on a whole different trajectory now but that's not the case. Hive needs to be profitable. It cannot rely on people's altruistic nature.

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valued-customer last year

"Large stakeholders are incentivised to curate (they earn the curator's rewards), while the creator earns the author's reward, but there is nothing designated for the consumers of these contents."

Curation rewards substitute pecuniary interest for other, generally considered far more important values of society by folks not obsessed with finance. Mike Tyson once said that Don King would sell his momma for a dollar, and that lays bare the perverse influence of financialization on society. Hive has vastly more valuable metrics than financial, as is blatantly obvious from the rapid dominance of social media of global markets. Censorship continues to burgeon and degrade civil society globally, while Hive continues to abandon it's potential to provide that priceless benefit to society that is existentially dependent on it.

"Hive needs to review its rewards system. What it currently has isn't working..."

It's working great to keep the oligarchy in control of inflation, and prevent IRL plutocrats from seizing the power to govern Hive as Sun Yuchen did Steem. Bugs are features, and trash treasure, depending on your viewpoint.

Thanks!

Edit:

"There is a popular account on X by the handle Dave the Reply Guy and he earned $400 just replying to content."

Does this financialization do anything other than manipulate monetary benefits? What is the purpose of social interaction? Is $400 more important than informed discussion of any of the topics Dave joined?

Almost any social interaction is far more valuable to those discussing it than a couple bucks they might get for clicking post. I have maintained for years that eliminating curation rewards completely would eliminate that perverse financialization of social interaction while enabling society to enjoy the monetary benefits of social media instead of an oligarchy. But, guess how the governance of a plutocracy, where power to govern is exclusively derived from stake, is determined?

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nonsowrites last year

Hive has vastly more valuable metrics than financial, as is blatantly obvious from the rapid dominance of social media of global markets. Censorship continues to burgeon and degrade civil society globally, while Hive continues to abandon it's potential to provide that priceless benefit to society that is existentially dependent on it.

I agree. In theory, Hive providing an immutable platfrom with high censorship resistance is more valuable than the financial incentives people gain from the platfrom. But I can argue that they are not mutual exclusive. Most people need to be financial free to think and converse without bias.

Also, one can argue that society is ready to embrace what Hive has to offer. It's almost a decade of preaching the gospel of decentralisation but that hasn't resonated with people, however, the monetary incentive has prompted their interest. During this process many (or few) are sold the idea and importance of having a decentralised social platfrom for free and transparent dialogues.
So my point is: hive can offer people financial freedom and free speech.

It's working great to keep the oligarchy in control of inflation, and prevent IRL plutocrats from seizing the power to govern Hive as Sun Yuchen did Steem. Bugs are features, and trash treasure, depending on your viewpoint

Fair enough. I do not oppose them per se. They want power, I seek freedom (both financially)

Does this financialization do anything other than manipulate monetary benefits? What is the purpose of social interaction? Is $400 more important than informed discussion of any of the topics Dave joined?

Yes it might in certain cases. For someone in a third word country that is security, which affords them the luxury of engaging in meaningful conversations and activities that can help their community and the world at large.

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valued-customer last year

I appreciate your considered response.

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cryptoandcoffee last year

I totally disagree with your viewpoint. Hive is based around stake due to what it offers and the idea is to grow ones stake over time. Commenting is massively important on Hive and should be curated but at the end of the day this is stake driven by being upvoted by the voter. Imagine if everyone kept on selling their rewards and people held no value for their upvotes what a mess this place would be. Stake is the most important part of Hive for handing out rewards and for earning. Over the last 5 years I have been growing my stake due to how important this is. What will happen as the user numbers rise is Hive becomes harder to earn and if you have no stake you are basically screwed until you grow your stake.

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nonsowrites last year

I disagree with your viewpoint. Hive is based around stake due to what it offers and the idea is to grow one's stake over time.

And that is why the platform is doing poorly and probably will sink into oblivion. Content is more important than stake. If the platform was set up differently probably no one would be worried about stake because creators would have other means of getting revenue through ads, endorsement, tips, etc we are trying to create a creators economy, not a stakeholder ecosystem. You are only scared of your stake being diluted because you know the value coming into the ecosystem does not commensurate with the value leaving. If hive was bringing in more dollars than it was taking stakeholder won't have any issue with it.

Everyone has to make up their mind. If we want a content-based platform, then we should take content seriously. If we want a stake-based platform then maybe we don't need content because it is diluting stakeholders' stake which is why they are holding the platform back.

I am a content creator who cares about getting the most value for my content. This whole talk about stakeholders' interest is exhausting and probably one of the reasons Hive is where it is today (below its true potential). And by value, I mean views, comments and money. And I believe this is the case for other established authors in the Web 2 space. No author is coming to hive to become a stakeholder, that's only an afterthought. So it is either we figure out how to use the content here to increase stakeholders' stake by making it a profitable venture and not some form of philanthropy or we scrap content creation.

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cryptoandcoffee last year

That is where you are wrong as by holding stake it offers you the ability to support others. If everyone here was taking out their rewards frequently then there would be no support. All the dapps are backed by Hive and this will not change as it is how Hive holds it's value. If you had stake you would see the value it holds and could support your followers far more. There will be advertising etc coming into play, but those paying need Hive and thus stake. I would like to see more decent creators as hive needs it compared to what we have now and where does that leave everyone else as they are going to be left behind. Don't be fooled stake is everything and it will always be the case.
By the way Hive is not sinking into oblivion it just needs decent marketing and Leofinance will get it right. No one knows about Hive and this will change.

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nonsowrites last year

That is where you are wrong as by holding stake it offers you the ability to support others.

Is this a responsibility everyone wants to assume? Most people here would rather delegate their stake to creations guilds. They are not interested in that whole process.

Don't be fooled stake is everything and it will always be the case. By the way Hive is not sinking into oblivion it just needs decent marketing and Leofinance will get it right. No one knows about Hive and this will change.

Maybe step outside and see what some of these web 3 social platforms are doing, you will have second thoughts about hive. Also the stats shows we are dropping in active users. Most social platform reach 100million users in 5 years. The blockchain is close to a decade. That gives me some concern and that this why I write those posts. I can easily speak on something else, earn, and move on. But I do care about the platform. I promote it off and on chain. However, I do not think it will reach its potential with the way our reward system is setup and the fact that we prioritise stake over the overall wellbeing of the platform. I joined this platform on 2018 and there are barely 2 persons from that time (that I know) that are still active. So no one can tell me it's doing well. Thankfully leofinance and 3spk are still putting in the work. I won't be here if they weren't

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princessbusayo last year

So far, there have been some curators who do this which I can testify to it but it isn't enough. We need more curators to appreciate quality comments and not focus on long form content. At least, this guy, Abh..something like that used to reward those who engage so well through Ecency by posting the leaderboard and rewarding them with Hive Power.

Engagement is what Hive needs and one of the ways is to start rewarding the quality comments and this will make members keep up with engaging meaningfully on posts.

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nonsowrites last year

yeah, I loved Abh's engagement league. It encouraged a lot of people to engage. Sadly he had to discontinue.

Engagement is what Hive needs and one of the ways is to start rewarding the quality comments and this will make members keep up with engaging meaningfully on posts.

I agree. This is why Leothreads is such an important app. It has changed how I use hive (positively)

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princessbusayo last year

Oh..He stopped? Wow...He was actually doing a great job then trying to make people engage and become active on Hive. Yes, Leothread has come to change everything for us on Hive. With thread, there is more engagement.

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india-leo last year

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keithtaylor last year

As someone who comments more than posts, I'm intrigued by your ideas about improving Hive engagement using better incentives for comments. Especially…

One way Hive can improve engagement on Hive is by actively curating comments on Hive. This simply means having a group of curators who search and reward decent comments the same way we curate content. There are a handful of powerful curation groups that can implement this idea and I believe it will improve engagement on hive.

My initial thoughts are that this would be much better done through a community. As opposed to tinkering with Hive's base-layer tokenomics. For example, the LeoFinance community has completely changed the way we see comments with Threads. But I don't think we need anything so radical. Just a group of like-minded Hivers who want to curate comments in preference to posts. Who could then work together to provide contests, curation trails, and other incentives.

Obviously, there is a lot of work required to establish rules and procedures. But I would definitely be up for contributing to a comment-curating community in any way that I can.

I would be really interested to know the thoughts of @macchiata on this. Because she paid me the astonishing sum of 5 Hive for commenting about productivity tools. That is by far the biggest reward I've got for writing on Hive. Yet it was also one of my most enjoyable pieces because I really felt I was part of something bigger than my own ramblings.

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nonsowrites last year

My initial thoughts are that this would be much better done through a community. As opposed to tinkering with Hive's base-layer tokenomics

I agree. As I mentioned to another commenter, I use Hive as an umbrella for other dapps--leofinance, ecenecy, etc.

Just a group of like-minded Hivers who want to curate comments in preference to posts. Who could then work together to provide contests, curation trails, and other incentives.

I understand this is an open-source project and participation is volunteer, but it will take more than people's goodwill to move the dapps further. They need to be run like a business by being efficient and profitable.

I would be really interested to know the thoughts of @macchiata on this. Because she paid me the astonishing sum of 5 Hive for commenting about productivity tools. That is by far the biggest reward I've got for writing on Hive. Yet it was also one of my most enjoyable pieces because I really felt I was part of something bigger than my own ramblings

I am open to other people's viewpoints. I will also check out the initiative you mentioned. Thanks for stopping by.

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