Half a year with solar

in #hive-1274663 months ago

In February this year we had our solar power system installed. So it has been operational for about half a year now.

The system consists of:

  • 20 panels at 405W each (total 8.1kW).
  • GivEnergy 5kW inverter.
  • GivEnergy 9.5kWh battery (lithiun iron phosphate).

You will note that the panels can supply more energy than the inverter can send to the house, but this should mean that we get more power in sub-optimal conditions.

I have seen some posts by @solominer, who has a big garden system, and @ksteem with a big roof install. They have been posting updates on their production and I may start doing that too. I will look at automating the collecition of the data as the energy supplier and the actual system both have software interfaces.

Monthly generation

You can see that in the summer months we are generating far more energy than we use, so we are getting paid for the excess and this has covered the monthly bill that also includes a standing charge for electricity as well as our gas usage for heating, hot water and cooking. In the winter we are likely to struggle to keep the battery charged up, but then we can make use of much cheaper electricity in the early morning. We also use that to charge our electric car. The panels and battery would not be enough to give that a full charge unless we left it plugged in all day when it is sunny.

Mid-August day

The panels are on the west side of the roof and so do not get direct sunlight until the middle of the day. They still generate in the morning and also when it is cloudy. As long as there is daylight they will produce something.

There have been some issues along the way. A few times (I think 5) a breaker in the system has tripped and disconnected the solar. We would not notice unless we check the app as the mains power will keep things running seamlessly. I do tend to check the app a few times each day, so I was able to reset the breaker. An engineer came out in July. He replaced the breaker, but it tripped again in early September. We just had another visit today and they did some changes to the cables and earthing that they say should resolve it. This is all under the warranty from Octopus who installed it and are also our energy supplier. They have been very responsive through the whole process.

We have not really had to change our habits to make the best use of the solar power. The main thing to watch out for is not using too much power. If we run the washing machine, over and air fryer all at the same time then that would probably use more than 5kW and we would be using the mains as well. We got the air fryer this year and use it instead of the oven for many meals. It is probably a more efficient way to cook. If we need water for cooking then I would now use the kettle rather than heating from cold on the gas hob. There is a plan for a new kitchen that will probably have an induction hob, so that will cut our gas usage by more.

Most of our lights are LED and we do not have many appliances that are using masses of power. There is a base load of a few hundred watts and the refrigerator is probably a fair bit of that. I just tend not to worry too much about leaving lights on now as it is not really costing us anything. I have reduced our monthly energy payments by a lot. We have built up some credit that should get us through the winter. I will have to wait a few more months to see how a full year goes and what our actual savings are. It was estimated that it will take around eleven years for the system to pay us back.

Our tariff is intended for those with an EV (electric vehicle). There is another where you give them control of the battery so that they can make use of it at peak times for a higher rate, but that does not allow for cheap EV charging. If your car charger or even your car are compatible then there are variable tariffs that can use the car battery. When I got our charger installed I did not know about that and it is not currently supported.

I am considering adding some extra automation using Home Assistant. One idea is to run the immersion heater when we have excess power rather than using gas. There may be some saving from that, but generally you do not have to do anything differently to be saving money as the system just gets on with it.

The cost of the hardware has really dropped over the years. We considered getting solar when we built the house twenty years ago, but it would have cost a lot more. It is likely that the labour will be a major part of any installation as you really need specialists to work on the roof and to do the electrics. I had a conversation with @apshamilton at Hivefest and he was telling me how cheap the panels can be if you buy them direct from China, but I wanted convenience. Some people are building fences with solar panels that are double sided and he has some on his boat.

I am happy enough with what we have. As well as saving money we want to play some part in reducing energy consumption. When it is sunny we can be powering several other homes.

I would recommend looking into solar if it is an option for you. Obviously you need a roof or somewhere else to install it, so it may not be viable for an apartment, although @louis88 has some panels on his balcony.

I know @meno powers his workshop from solar, so I would like to see some details of that. It would be great to build up the Hive solar community so we can compare notes.

Shine on!

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Oh must be a nice feeling making your own energy. I'd really like to install solar on my next house. Just a shame the money you get from the excess produced isn't the same rate at which it is to import from the grid.

Well we don't pay the peak rate most of the time, so we get almost as much for exporting as importing. Of course the power companies still need to make money, but I suspect things will change as more people get solar and batteries.

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I like that you were able to get the system installed through your power company. That would give me a lot of peace of mind if we had that option here.

It's about finding a company you trust. Octopus are generally good at encouraging sustainable energy.

I wonder if a wind turbine would offer an additional input for winter months which tend to be more windy than sunny.

That can be an option for some, but turbines may not work in urban situations. Mind you, there are some designs that are quieter and less obtrusive. We need to exploit all the available options.

Wind turbines are pretty useless at small sizes and always end up making a noise. On boats they're a distant second best to solar for sure.

I've seen them on boats, so I guess they do something. I've also seen a lot of solar on narrowboats. It has to be better than running a generator and should be low maintenance. Wind for homes will depend on location. For those who are off-grid it could help them get through winter. I've visited CAT in Wales a few times and they are pioneers of this. For us solar was the best option.

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The Department of Energy states, "Your turbine needs to be sited upwind of any buildings and trees, and it needs to be 30 feet above anything within 300 feet." The height considerations could be challenging in urban areas.
Article for reference:
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/installing-and-maintaining-small-wind-electric-system

The article also states:

An off-grid, hybrid electric system may be practical for you if the items below describe your situation:
• You live in an area with average annual wind speed of at least 9 miles per hour (4.0 meters per second).
• A grid connection is not available or can only be made through an expensive extension.
• The cost of running a power line to a remote site to connect with the utility grid can be prohibitive.
• You would like to gain energy independence from the utility.
• You would like to generate clean power.

We have an area lower down the property where wind blows into a sort of channel. At times it is almost like a wind highway. Especially during the wintertime. I'm not sure how much wind we get on average. 9 miles per hour doesn't seem like a lot, but then again maybe it is. I guess I would need to put some sort of weather device down there to begin tracking what the average wind speed is to see if it meets the minimum wind requirements. Hmmm....

I would think in the US that living off grid would be more attractive as getting power to a remote property would be expensive. Get a few old Tesla batteries and charge them with wind/solar. There are various types of wind turbine and some may work with lower wind speeds. It is not something I have looked too deeply at.

Someone in our village has a small turbine in their garden, but I don't know what they use it for.

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I have rooftop solar for 3 years now

IMG_7901.jpeg

Generated 26 megawatts-hour so far!

Nice! I am keen to see how we do over the year. I would think it could reach 8MWh in that time, but it may be less. Do many people near you have solar? It's quite common here. Some social housing organisations rolled it out on their properties.

I live in Houston, TX, which is a bit rainy. I wouldn't say it is very common, but in my neighborhood, among 30 houses, 3 of them have solar. That would give you an idea. However, that also based on the area of town you live in. West Texas is dry, so places like Austin and San Antonio have more solar than Houston.

Here is my set up

IMG_7902.jpeg

I know Texas is oil country, but if people can get basically free energy then they may be interested. We may get it wetter here, but there's still enough sunshine to be worth it. Solar is getting much more common here now.

I work for Big Oil. I am an exploration geologist. I find oil and gas for a living:)

Yet my home is basically off the grid, net year on average. I don't generate enough over the summer (Houston is very hot, A/C is expensive in terms of wattage), but mostly make up during the winter, as winter here is sunny, unlike UK.

My problem is I don't have enough south facing area on my roof. You can see above, I have only 8 panels facing south, they are more efficient. The west facing panels don't generate enough.

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@tipu curate

We are in the process of finalizing our solar system which will be a 16Kw/h hopefully taking us off the grid completely. We are disconnecting the mains from the grid and if required will add another 8kw/h afterwards. I have a generator which is being converted for top up supply if required, but we have been assured we have plenty. I think I saw somewhere we are having 40 panels and need to double check. I cannot wait for this to happen now and it will be fun to see how this all works. Obviously we have more sun than you in the UK, but you can get the panels on an automated bracket that tracks the sun throughout the day.

That will be quite a set-up. We'll be keeping our grid connection. Having panels track the sun would add complication and I expect it would need to be off the roof. I wonder how much you gain from it. If we had a south facing roof we would do better.

No the panels are automated on their brackets and it is only a few degrees that they move by, but this makes a big difference.

This is really great, but I don't have a roof to put solar panels on. 😳
I do have a small garden, and I've been thinking about getting a gazebo in the garden, and maybe consider putting some of this on the roof of the gazebo. But it seems that the area is still too small.

As I said, people put them on balconies and I've seen systems on garden buildings too. Even if it's just a few panels it could save you money. I will look out for Hivers sharing their experience.

I love the way you analyse this so you give the power you do not need to the energy system and get paid? We have solar panels in the new house, also had them in another one just to make sure we have warm water between March to October and no need to fire up heating at all.

My aunt has installed more and sells surplus but regrets it as she is now officially and entreprenuer and tax system is as any other thing complicated in Germany :-).

This does not have any tax impact on us as it just gets offset against what we pay for our energy. I need to see if the payments need adjusting to keep us in credit through the winter. I could use some of the excess for water heating, but we have more than enough for that. The house heating is currently on gas, but I may look at a heat pump at some point.

Have you posted about your system? I want to see what benefits solar brings to different people.

!BEER

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I did not post about the system - I actually have it in the cellar and as long as it works I do not really think about it :-). But I might take a deeper look into the specs sooon and let you know. House heating also on gas right now, with solar we jsut do not need that much which is good. In Germany they wanna get rid of all gas / oil stuff and support you buying "Wäremepumpe aka heat pump" but still it would cost most house owners addition 40-60k€ and I am careful to spend that much money yet .

I'm sure Germany wants to get off dependence on Russian gas. Heat pumps should cost a lot less than that, but it will depend on what other equipment you need. Here there is a government grant to cover some of the cost.

True, independent frpm Russian gas and we also get support by government but my calculation still says we need to spend privately in addition around 40-60k - that is not doabel - we will see how the next election will end and what is new then

just checked again the government program - they pay 40% for the system (if meets requirements whch is typical German admin language) - so it could work out with 30-40k - but in a nutshell makes only sense when gas system is old and has to be replaced anyway - now not really an option I think. We will see :-)

We can get a £7500 grant and Octopus says it would only cost another £500 for the heat pump. Actual cost will depend on other factors, but I would want to get an proper quote. Our boiler is getting on a bit, so I will consider it when that needs replacing.

Yeah many factors and many different sources that tell what it wil / could cost dpeending on certain factors - here a ballpark screenshot (In German)

image.png

Rough translated (but all depends on "factors" :-))

How much does it cost to convert a gas heating system to a heat pump?
Converting a gas heating system to a heat pump costs between €25,000 and €50,000, depending on the output and type of heat pump. The purchase costs for the heat pump are between €20,000 and €35,000, up to 40% of which is subsidized by government grants.

The total costs for the gas heating system are calculated as follows:

Cost center of the conversion Costs
Disposal of gas heating € 2,000 - 3,000
Purchase of heat pump 20,000 - 35,000 €
Installation of heat pump incl. accessories € 3,000 - 12,000
Total costs € 25,000 - 50,000

I could read the German :)

Maybe the German market is different to the UK, but costs here seem much lower. Looks like an opportunity for someone to offer a better deal.


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Thanks for posting this info. It's always interesting for me to see how others have setup and how their systems are performing. I can hardly wait to get some longer term statistics from ours at 6 months. We're still in the middle of storm season here with lots of cloudy days cutting back the production. That should be past us next month, and then will be curious to see the production difference of winter vs. summer as the sun shifts position a bit. Our panels are also mostly west facing.

This first winter will be interesting. Even though it is overcast today we are still getting about half the power of a sunny day. Obviously the days get shorter too, so production is bound to drop.

!BEER


Hey @ksteem, here is a little bit of BEER from @steevc for you. Enjoy it!

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Awesome.

You could be running several Bitcoin miners with any excess Power. They have these new BitAxe gamma miners for $148 that run on 20 watts of power and generate about 100 Satoshi per day. Best way to stack Free Bitcoin. You can also set them up as Solo miners and have a chance of hitting a Block (3.125 Bitcoin) $200,000 every 10 minutes … someone with a BitAxe hit a block last month.

BitAxe Gamma : https://d-central.tech/product/the-bitaxe/ref/Offgrid

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Is that like playing the lottery? By my estimates those will take many years to pay back if you don't hit a block. I can make about as much from exporting the power without the extra upfront cost.

Yes… Solo mining is like playing the lottery, but you can also set up the BitAxe to run on Braiins pool and earn 100 Satoshi a day…sent every day to your Bitcoin Lightning wallet. No fees . That is what I am doing since I am not a fan of Lotteries at all. I just want to stack daily Satoshi.

I get 42 Satoshi a day with my BitAxe Supra. Paid daily ….

Forever … running for Free on my 100 watt Solar panel.

IMG_0694.jpeg

Existing Offgrid Solar Equipment (Also powers small freezer, wifi, nerdminer, other devices) :

Jackery 240 : https://amzn.to/4dfaYLD

100 Watt Solar Panel: https://amzn.to/3Ajbd9K

20W x 24 hours is about 0.5 kWh. I can export that for 4p. 100 sats is a similar value, so if I have to pay £150 for the unit then it's not really worth it. Money is not the only motivation for this anyway.

I think I'd rather run a Hive witness. I don't know what I would make, but it would be more interesting to me.

Very true. I don’t do it for the money either. I’m more interested in learning about the technology and How to get more Bitcoin Miners to move to Solar.

I'd love to have solar on our house, but it's rented, not south facing and doesn't have a huge surface area to work with being a terraced house.

But honestly I'd be happy if I could make around 500w average as that cover the bulk of my electric usage, pretty much always using around 500w 24/7 due to fishtanks and my server.

Probably save us around £700 or more a year in electric.


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It's tricky if you are renting unless you can do some deal with the landlord. They won't want you connecting such things to the house electrics. It might be possible to do a solar rig in the garden with batteries than can supply an independent circuit, but it needs some care. I expect you could run pumps from 12V dc, but you need an inverter for anything ac.

It could be a good investment for landlords to install solar as they could offer discounted electricity whilst taking some of the gain for themselves.