Was DeepSeek a black swan?

in #ai3 days ago

The black swan theory or theory of black swan events is a metaphor that describes an event that comes as a surprise, has a major effect, and is often inappropriately rationalized after the fact with the benefit of hindsight. The term is based on a Latin expression which presumed that black swans did not exist. The expression was used until around 1697 when Dutch mariners saw black swans living in Australia. After this, the term was reinterpreted to mean an unforeseen and consequential event.
- From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I believe DeepSeek is the Black Swan we never expected. While DeepSeek isn't new, their latest AI models have put Claude, OpenAI, and Meta on full alert. Not only does DeepSeek perform as well or better than frontier models, it was created a fraction of the cost, in fact as much as 95% less than OpenAI premier models. That alone would be enough to make waves in the industry, to take it further, DeepSeek is completely open, unlike what OpenAI's name implies. To make matters worse for OpenAI, DeepSeek has been very forthcoming about how they did it.

With Trump providing $500 billion dollar to advance AI infrastructure, DeepSeek releasing a superior model that only cost $5.6 million sent shock waves through the industry. Tech stocks went into a tail spin today as a result, with Nvidia (NVDA) dropping almost 17% bleeding almost $500 billion in market capitalization.



Why the sudden crash?

The US stock market has been doing amazingly well the last couple of years and this is largely due to Nvidia and other AI & Tech stocks performing extremely well with NVDA being a major driver of this.



OpenAI was founded 10 years ago, has 4,500 employees, and has raised $6.6 billion in capital. DeepSeek was founded less than 2 years ago, has 200 employees, and was developed for less than $10 million. How are these two companies now competitors?
- Adam Kobeissi - The Kobeissi Letter

Everyone assumed closed systems and massive funding was required to keep AI advancing, yet a small foreign company provided them wrote with just a "side project" of theirs. This also puts into question how much demand there really needs to be for high end GPU technology.

While I personally believe this is only a blip on radar, it will re-calibrate expectations for much of the industry and market. There is no questions others will try to accomplish the same thing DeepSeek has, and it will be much easier as they provide all their research. I truly believe this is the Black Swan event we never predicted.

To put in perspective how disrupted this technology is, look at the pricing comparison of OpenAI and DeepSeek.

OpenAI Pricing

DeepSeek Pricing

At nearly 30x less expensive than OpenAI, DeepSeek not only performs as well or better, can be run completely on your own hardware without paying a third party API fees. You can also fine tune DeepSeek to be even more powerful while using smaller models.

An interesting tweet by an OpenAI employee and an epic community response.

This is such a big deal, I am considering building a system to run the full 671 billion parameter version of DeepSeek R1 locally. I am already running the 32B & 70B models.

How good is DeepSeek really?

Independent benchmarks have put it on par or better than OpenAI's top reasoning model in all categories.

This is only the beginning, hold on!

Posted Using INLEO

Sort:  

!PIZZA

PIZZA!

$PIZZA slices delivered:
@danzocal(2/10) tipped @themarkymark

So even if you run it locally it still learns? I'm interested to see some folks run it through the paces to determine just how much better it is.

So even if you run it locally it still learns?

No, none of these models "learn". They can capture the activity and use it to future train and release an updated model, but they don't "learn" outside of what they learn about your conversation.

Ah, okay. I saw a post late last night that they capture key patterns and stuff like that when you sign the EULA. Did you notice that?

Loading...

I just downloaded the mobile version to test it this morning lol! It is amazing how it works! When i comeback from vacations I will test it on the pc! Do you know if they built something for python or js?

Do you know if they built something for python or js?

They do.

Loading...
Loading...

I only just found out about this when I started looking for why Nvidia was doing so badly. Wow—very interesting news!

Open models are the future of AI. Though I don't think anything will stop OpenAI and American companies from wasting those 500b dollars. Even if DeepSeek was 100 times better, they would still find a reason for their existence.

It is certainly good for the people that this technology is not monopolized. A bunch of guys in a basement in a random country can compete and innovate in the front lines. I think the Stable diffusion era was the beginning of all this. Everybody and their grandma became opensource AI developers after that.

Open models are the future of AI. Though I don't think anything will stop OpenAI and American companies from wasting those 500b dollars. Even if DeepSeek was 100 times better, they would still find a reason for their existence.

100% agree.

Loading...

It is certainly good for the people that this technology is not monopolized.

Well, all these guys from the Stargate Project who might benefit from having such a large sum of $500B dohlah$ at their disposal to spend it as they wish. They could also simply try to copy all of DeepSeek's AI software technology from the Chinese for free and with the dohlah$ buy all that land, build and set up all those warehouses and infrastructure full of fancy hardware and datacenters with an immense computing capacity and by simply pirate & copycat DeepSeek's software A.I. technology, they might try to surpass the Chinese in their computing power and attempt to "monopolize" the market by any means anyway.

There was a time when the Chinese pirated, copied and tried to imitate everything from the West. But they stopped doing that a long time ago and now they only develop and innovate. Apparently that has now been reversed and it is the West now that is trying and will try to do what the Chinese did for so long.


««If you appreciate what I've said, don't upvote me, be smarter!»»

Loading...

AFAIK DeepSeek was released with the MIT license so anybody anywhere can freely use it for any purposes even commercially. It being open is the key. You don't need to pirate it. It is literally free.

It's not about China vs USA as the media portrays it. It's opensource vs closed source. Community vs corporations. If these guys were in USA, it would be the same deal. Big corporations making it seem they are doing a big thing and sucking all the money while doing nothing. It's not a new thing.

AFAIK DeepSeek was released with the MIT license so anybody anywhere can freely use it for any purposes even commercially. It being open is the key. You don't need to pirate it. It is literally free.

Well, and yet, not everything is truly Open Source in DeepSeek AFAIK. Deepseek offers some different models, R1 and V3 in addition to an image generator of name Janus Pro. But the technique, the deep core, all the bells and whistles and the exact source code that they used to train the models is not publicly available nor open source. So, USA or whatever country, would still have to copy, hack and reverse engineer that know-how of the chinese that is not into the MIT license.

Loading...

Hi, I like swans and I like DeepSeek, I hope to try this very soon, nice post my friend.👍👍👍

"I believe DeepSeek is the Black Swan we never expected."

Turns out, fortunately, it was not a Black Swan. It's merely the first iteration of far better AI.

JanusPro7b.png
IMG source - Twatter

"...this is only a blip on radar..."

No, it's proof that decentralization is the cutting edge of tech advance in EVERY field of industry.

Thanks!

Turns out, fortunately, it was not a Black Swan. It's merely the first iteration of far better AI.

It isn’t really about being better ai, in fact it isn’t better than OpenAI it’s on par or slightly worse or slightly better. Hard to quantify. The cost and openness is what everyone is freaking out about. The fact it goes to show you don’t need billion dollars of gpus and how this is just a side project is what is rocking the tech world.

We were just told we suck at ai and are blowing money like mad. The actual model is good but I wouldn’t say it is far better or even as good. It’s damn close though and “potentially” as good.

"The cost and openness..."

That's what makes it so much better.

I think the AI hype has fueled a bubble economy, and this kind of disruption was inevitable. When it would happen was unknown, but if this is it, I welcome it. This ahs been the 90s internet bubble all over again, and as ventures flop and the market winnows out the filler, it will probably stabilize. I don't think we'll really know the true power, market value, and societal impact of AI until a decade from now.

We'll learn that market value by putting it to work maintaining our table top production tooling, maintaining our homes, vehicles, and schedules/social obligations, and etc. That's AI's peak utility, handling checklists and remembering details, repeating drudgery and unskilled labor. I await developers putting it to those mundane tasks instead of trying continually to one up each other with surprising results of weighting human arts, as LLM's and picture making does.

That is it's actual highest purpose.

Loading...
Loading...

With Trump providing $500 billion dollar to advance AI infrastructure, DeepSeek releasing a superior model that only cost $5.6 million sent shock waves through the industry. Tech stocks went into a tail spin today as a result, with Nvidia (NVDA) dropping almost 17% bleeding almost $500 billion in market capitalization.

Do you think that a social media tsunami of such magnitude, dimension and impact would have been unleashed in the world of artificial intelligence technologies in the West after the public revelation of the benefits and advantages of the comparable and cheaper Chinese A.I. DeepSeek if it had not been for Mr. Trump's declaration and approval of releasing and dish $500B of taxpayers' money into StarGate?

I don't think that really had any effect on it.

Then, you're saying that regardless of Trump's statements or if he hadn't said anything publicly about his approval of the $500B investment in StarGate, all the turmoil and shock waves sent to the entire AI industry would have produced the same hype and huge social media tsunami?


««If you appreciate what I've said, don't upvote me, be smarter!»»

Hahaha, well, but perhaps not so fast as it happened, right?

Loading...
Loading...

lmao Ai lost its job to AI the funniest

Loading...

Good point 👍🏼

Loading...

Amazing what DeepSeek accomplished with fewer resources, proves hardware is not everything but I still think demand for AI / GPU compute will only rise, especially in a mass adoption scenario.

Loading...

DeepSeek is a big deal, an impressive achievement. Not a black swan though, but theory turning into practice sooner than expected. Experts like Gianluca Mauro predicted that OpenAI would be unprofitable because competition would turn LLMs into a commodity.

And the best part is, this is what is given to the public, to normal people...can you imagine what they are doing on the military side of this? What's boiling in the pot?

Interesting news story, and shocking market reaction.

I am normally a little skeptical of whether everything the Chinese News Service is telling us is true, but I recognize that you have some expertise in this area, so I will take this more at face value.

It's impressive that you have the expertise to test out and understand some of this technology. I didn't understand everything you said, but it sounded like you were testing out some downsized examples of this technology. So I look forward to readiing more from you on this as you test the technology more.